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[Music]

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[Laughter]

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thank you

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welcome back to another episode of

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liminal frames I'm your host Nathan

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joined by my friend and co-host Darren

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King EXO academian Darren it's always

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great to see you hope you're doing well

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how's it going

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it's going well my friend I was going to

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say yeah you can start saying my last

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name now that's fine so you read my mind

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there

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doing well we both noted that it's been

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crazy windy here in uh Western North

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Carolina which we the last time I

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touched on our allergies they're only

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you know increased since then I think

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they're getting close to peak level but

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uh we'll make it through this episode

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I'm doing well how are you my friend I'm

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good yeah it uh if I had been in the

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kite flying or kite selling business I

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would have been having a great week here

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because it has been in great just crazy

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windy uh you know if I were Mary Poppins

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I could have opened the umbrella and

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landed on the other other continents so

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it's uh it's been a little bit wild a

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little freaky even almost With the Wind

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being as intense as it has as it has

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been we've lost power a few times so uh

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kind of kind of crazy but always great

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to be here chatting with you and in fact

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uh I think this is episode 30 uh which

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is I mean just crazy we were just

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talking a second ago about how we met uh

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in the fall of uh 2021 hit it off and

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started the show in early 2022 uh man A

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lot has changed in that time uh wow and

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more is coming more is coming and more

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is coming indeed I would say that um

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without getting into details I'd say

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that the the windiness and I you know

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almost like a storm brewing there you

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know there are things coming down the

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pipe that I think are civilizations

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going to have to reckon with so yeah

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it's like the weather portends something

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that is coming down the pipe indeed um

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yes ominous indeed uh well it's gonna be

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a fun show tonight we're gonna talk

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about something that we've not spent a

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whole show on thus far

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but I think is really intriguing uh has

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a lot of implications and quite frankly

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isn't talked about as much in the

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broader ufological Community uh and and

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I think we'll delve into some of the

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reasons why that may be the case as well

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and that's uh dealing with this extra

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tempestral hypothesis and so I wanted

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you to kind of set us off here set the

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stage what does it mean what is the

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Extraterrestrial hypothesis who is

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putting that forward unpack it for us

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so that particular term applied to this

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notion is from Michael Masters

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he's written several books now he's

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written two books that have been

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published and the third one is coming

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and he's a friend of mine and I've

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talked to him about this hypothesis and

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we've had some great conversations

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he's done a great job really

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speaking to the legitimacy of this

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hypothesis to explain much of the UFO

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phenomenon and to the point that you

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raised there when we think about

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you know Kirkpatrick saying there's no

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credible evidence for extraterrestrial

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technology and whatnot right there is no

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mention of the other possibilities we

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said that right like the the

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ultra-terrestrial the crypto terrestrial

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the inter-dimensional and perhaps the

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the least um of a leap in terms of what

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what would in entail this being the case

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is the extra tempestral hypothesis now

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that's a term that Mike came up with he

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sort of just replaced a terrestrial part

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with tempestral so the extra aspect

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would be in time not space in terms of

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the focus

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but as we get into tonight that doesn't

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preclude the possibility that they're

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also extraterrestrial

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but this notion of a future human

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hypothesis and the notion that some of

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these apparent spacecraft might be

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better described as time travel vehicles

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goes back well before Mike actually and

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in his book the extra-termestral model

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which is the second book which I highly

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recommend people read he gets into just

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how far back this goes and how many

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people have talked about this as a

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possibility

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and we have often quoted Jacques valet

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here when he says the one thing the UFO

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phenomenon teaches us is that we do not

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understand space-time

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so that being the case a manipulation of

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space-time altogether definitely seems

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to be in play here we see elements of

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this right so this is the notion we'll

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get into I'm going to read some quotes

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from this book we're going to talk about

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some of the different implications of

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this

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definitely look at some of the evidence

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for this being the case

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but what's compelling about this

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argument is that

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again Mike Masters is an evolutionary

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biologist right someone who specializes

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in this who did their PHD in this has a

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specialty in the hominin line knows very

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specifically about the trajectory of

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evolution can look at the history from

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the chimpanzees up to us kind of thing

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and the ancestors that predated both of

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those

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and as he made the point in his first

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book when he first saw the front cover

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of communion Whitley struber's communion

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which was this like groundbreaking book

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when it came out

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he saw what looked to be like a form

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that if you lined up three photos you'd

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have a chimpanzee you'd have a modern

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human being and you'd have a

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quote-unquote gray alien and those three

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to him looked like three ancestors like

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three

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um forms that were part of a single

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lineage that's what he actually saw when

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he looked at it so that's we're going to

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get into is this notion that

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some of the gray aliens anyway and some

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of the others as well because there's

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there's different ones that seem to have

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a connection to Earth forms that these

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various others at least some of them may

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it's a lot to deal with right uh I

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I mean I'm fascinated by this hypothesis

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I'm also I have some mixed emotions

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about it because and I think some people

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do as well because it uh in some ways

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it's a little less thrilling uh if

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they're just us from the future then it

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would be to say they came from another

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star system another galaxy Another

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Universe other dimension uh or that they

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were somehow like a separate lineage or

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species of of us on our planet that we

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just haven't interacted with for a very

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long time

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um so it's it feels almost a little less

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glamorous which is a strange way of

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critiquing it it's not really a critique

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at all it's just almost like a visceral

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reaction to it

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um and the other thing that comes to my

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mind when I think about this one is just

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the uh what went wrong you know are they

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are they or did anything go go wrong

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here so we've heard uh folks mention

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folks like Russ cultart who have

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mentioned that uh there might be two

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factions here uh kind of competing over

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the trajectory that we are currently on

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some in favor of our trajectory and

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helping us continue to move forward and

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some that aren't in favor of humanity

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the human experiment right now kind of

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wanting to shut it down uh but the

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elements of both that might be from the

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future

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um and so that that's quite ominous

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right it's like well what it Where Do We

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Go Wrong uh otherwise I'm saying that

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out loud I'm chuckling because you're

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just looking out the window and there's

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a lot of things a lot of areas where

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we're going wrong right now and so it uh

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you know maybe it's causing some sense

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of self-reflection where we are as a

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society as a people

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um that if if we somehow make it past

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these many calamitous issues that are

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swirling around our culture right now

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and develop this type of Technology

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you know what kinds of opportunities

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that open up for us to either write some

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of the wrong turns that we may have made

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in the past uh or even just more mundane

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things like travel back in time to do

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you know history experiments or observe

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the dinosaurs or whatever it may be

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something more mundane there's just a

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lot of different possibilities here and

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we haven't even yet touched on the

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interactions that these visitors are

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having or reported to of having with you

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know current day humans and and the

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nature of those interactions abductions

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Etc

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indeed it really is a mind-bending

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notion but when you really wrap your

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head around it it has a lot of

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compelling elements to it because and

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we'll get into those tonight we'll get

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into why this might be the most

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parsimonious argument in the sense of uh

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involves the fewest number of leaps to

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get there I just want to remind people

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of what that means so parsimony simply

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means that when conducting a scientific

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experiment you always choose the most

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simple explanation available right and

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this is related to Occam's razor

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which is a principle of theory

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construction or evaluation According to

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which among other things being equal

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explanations that posit fewer entities

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or fewer kinds of entities are to be

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preferred to explanations that posit

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more

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so this is very interesting here because

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this is one of the most compelling

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elements of his argument is that we know

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we exist Nathan and Darren are having

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this conversation because we exist

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presumably

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so we know that

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and according to Modern physics there's

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not really any reason to believe that

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time travel is not possible

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theoretically

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and that being the case when you look at

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even how much we've leapfrogged

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ourselves in terms of

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technological development in this

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Century or the last 100 years or so

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then it seems almost a guarantee that we

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will at some point develop time travel

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and based on our history

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how many times have we developed a

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technology and said you know what I

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think we should just leave this one

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alone

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I'm pretty sure we're batting zero on

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that

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so in other words once we can we will

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and

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we're going to talk a bit tonight about

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really the mind-bending implications of

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this because once time travel becomes a

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possibility then of course history

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becomes potentially riddled with

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rewrites right and that this can this

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can happen ongoingly

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and the people in this courage stream of

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the present wouldn't necessarily have

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any kind of sense of this other than

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sometimes people talk about having this

278
00:10:48,530 --> 00:10:47,160
strange effect where they could have

279
00:10:50,569 --> 00:10:48,540
sworn something was different when they

280
00:10:52,430 --> 00:10:50,579
were younger than the historical record

281
00:10:54,650 --> 00:10:52,440
seems to suggest now right that's

282
00:10:56,870 --> 00:10:54,660
something we get into as well

283
00:10:58,850 --> 00:10:56,880
but when you think about what I just

284
00:11:01,250 --> 00:10:58,860
said about parsimony and Occam's razor

285
00:11:03,889 --> 00:11:01,260
and you think about

286
00:11:05,630 --> 00:11:03,899
this scientific preference for

287
00:11:08,210 --> 00:11:05,640
looking at the most simple explanation

288
00:11:10,490 --> 00:11:08,220
rather than positing more elaborate ones

289
00:11:12,230 --> 00:11:10,500
how does this line up for you compared

290
00:11:14,990 --> 00:11:12,240
to say the interdimensional or the

291
00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:15,000
Extraterrestrial hypothesis

292
00:11:19,250 --> 00:11:16,800
I mean

293
00:11:23,569 --> 00:11:19,260
it's comforting in a way because it does

294
00:11:26,990 --> 00:11:23,579
I appreciate the Simplicity uh as you

295
00:11:28,970 --> 00:11:27,000
said because we already exist uh this

296
00:11:33,370 --> 00:11:28,980
isn't a further a much further leap than

297
00:11:36,590 --> 00:11:33,380
that and to posit that there are

298
00:11:40,009 --> 00:11:36,600
interdimensionals and visitors from

299
00:11:42,110 --> 00:11:40,019
other you know star systems etc etc it

300
00:11:44,810 --> 00:11:42,120
just continues to sort of ADD

301
00:11:46,150 --> 00:11:44,820
layers in to the onion that may not be

302
00:11:49,910 --> 00:11:46,160
necessary

303
00:11:53,150 --> 00:11:49,920
we're already as well kind of on this

304
00:11:56,030 --> 00:11:53,160
technological trajectory where it's not

305
00:11:58,910 --> 00:11:56,040
too hard to imagine that we we could

306
00:12:01,130 --> 00:11:58,920
achieve this capability as you said our

307
00:12:03,710 --> 00:12:01,140
physics has already noted that there's

308
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:03,720
not necessarily A Hard obstacle to

309
00:12:09,670 --> 00:12:06,720
achieving it and so given enough time

310
00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:09,680
right which is also interesting here

311
00:12:15,710 --> 00:12:12,720
given enough time and effort and energy

312
00:12:17,870 --> 00:12:15,720
Etc like we will crack that and then

313
00:12:20,449 --> 00:12:17,880
once we do crack it

314
00:12:22,130 --> 00:12:20,459
it's at that point where the

315
00:12:25,730 --> 00:12:22,140
possibilities

316
00:12:27,949 --> 00:12:25,740
become a a huge unfolding of different

317
00:12:30,590 --> 00:12:27,959
things that they they come into the

318
00:12:32,889 --> 00:12:30,600
equation into the conversation uh not

319
00:12:36,050 --> 00:12:32,899
only changing the past visiting the past

320
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:36,060
uh but changing the future maybe perhaps

321
00:12:43,310 --> 00:12:39,360
multiple Futures multiple uh lineages

322
00:12:47,150 --> 00:12:43,320
that have a similar kind of human uh or

323
00:12:49,069 --> 00:12:47,160
hominid component all because of you

324
00:12:51,350 --> 00:12:49,079
know small things that may have taken

325
00:12:53,690 --> 00:12:51,360
place in our in our history that our

326
00:12:56,090 --> 00:12:53,700
future selves happen to have

327
00:12:58,490 --> 00:12:56,100
accomplished I know we're going to get

328
00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:58,500
into some of that too so it opens up the

329
00:13:02,329 --> 00:13:00,720
possibility space quite a bit while also

330
00:13:04,250 --> 00:13:02,339
constraining it and I don't know there's

331
00:13:06,829 --> 00:13:04,260
some Elegance to that

332
00:13:08,930 --> 00:13:06,839
right and there's other elements we can

333
00:13:10,610 --> 00:13:08,940
bring in and we will do this as we go

334
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:10,620
through this tonight but I just want to

335
00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:12,240
remind people that all of the some of

336
00:13:18,350 --> 00:13:14,160
the most common players in the UFO

337
00:13:20,389 --> 00:13:18,360
phenomenon have shapes forms that bear a

338
00:13:22,370 --> 00:13:20,399
striking resemblance with forms that

339
00:13:23,690 --> 00:13:22,380
already exist on the Earth right we one

340
00:13:26,050 --> 00:13:23,700
of the most common ones or the most

341
00:13:28,250 --> 00:13:26,060
striking ones is the nine foot tall

342
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:28,260
mantids right that look a lot like a

343
00:13:34,310 --> 00:13:31,440
giant praying mantis why why why would

344
00:13:36,530 --> 00:13:34,320
an alien being look almost exactly like

345
00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:36,540
a giant version of an insect on planet

346
00:13:41,030 --> 00:13:38,160
Earth just

347
00:13:42,590 --> 00:13:41,040
think through the the what would have to

348
00:13:44,990 --> 00:13:42,600
be in play for that to be the case it's

349
00:13:47,389 --> 00:13:45,000
very very difficult to make the argument

350
00:13:48,889 --> 00:13:47,399
assuming evolution is mostly true that

351
00:13:50,750 --> 00:13:48,899
there's some element of truth behind the

352
00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:50,760
theory of evolution by natural selection

353
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:53,760
if that is somehow really indicative of

354
00:13:57,530 --> 00:13:55,920
reality how would you end up with a form

355
00:13:59,150 --> 00:13:57,540
on a different planet with completely

356
00:14:00,889 --> 00:13:59,160
different environmental conditions and

357
00:14:02,690 --> 00:14:00,899
pressures that would produce a form

358
00:14:03,829 --> 00:14:02,700
that's almost identical other than being

359
00:14:06,410 --> 00:14:03,839
much larger

360
00:14:08,750 --> 00:14:06,420
it's it's difficult to really reckon

361
00:14:09,949 --> 00:14:08,760
with even the reptilians which I think

362
00:14:11,870 --> 00:14:09,959
some people have the hardest time

363
00:14:14,509 --> 00:14:11,880
believing in

364
00:14:16,730 --> 00:14:14,519
are mostly humanoid shapes mixed with

365
00:14:18,829 --> 00:14:16,740
kind of lizards right and both of those

366
00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:18,839
also exist on the Earth

367
00:14:23,389 --> 00:14:20,880
and of course

368
00:14:25,629 --> 00:14:23,399
we can't look past the number of human

369
00:14:27,889 --> 00:14:25,639
looking the fully human looking beings

370
00:14:30,110 --> 00:14:27,899
we have ones that are kind of like a

371
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:30,120
seem like a bit of an extrapolation like

372
00:14:33,530 --> 00:14:32,160
the nordics but you have other ones that

373
00:14:35,810 --> 00:14:33,540
look like the same person you could be

374
00:14:37,490 --> 00:14:35,820
Crossing or passing in the street so

375
00:14:39,769 --> 00:14:37,500
again you ask the question

376
00:14:42,889 --> 00:14:39,779
you must ask the question why why are

377
00:14:45,590 --> 00:14:42,899
these the forms if these really are

378
00:14:47,150 --> 00:14:45,600
primarily extraterrestrial entities why

379
00:14:49,730 --> 00:14:47,160
do they have these striking resemblances

380
00:14:51,050 --> 00:14:49,740
to typologies that already exist on the

381
00:14:52,610 --> 00:14:51,060
planet right now

382
00:14:53,870 --> 00:14:52,620
want to quote from this book here and

383
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:53,880
then we can Riff on this so this is

384
00:14:56,930 --> 00:14:55,440
again from Michael Masters the extra

385
00:14:59,569 --> 00:14:56,940
tempestral model

386
00:15:01,850 --> 00:14:59,579
quote an important component of this

387
00:15:04,490 --> 00:15:01,860
concept centered on how long-term

388
00:15:06,829 --> 00:15:04,500
biological and cultural Trends in human

389
00:15:09,470 --> 00:15:06,839
evolution if they persist into the

390
00:15:11,389 --> 00:15:09,480
future may ultimately result in us

391
00:15:14,090 --> 00:15:11,399
becoming them

392
00:15:16,430 --> 00:15:14,100
this is noteworthy considering how often

393
00:15:17,990 --> 00:15:16,440
these beings are described as human or

394
00:15:20,689 --> 00:15:18,000
with unique derived traits

395
00:15:22,670 --> 00:15:20,699
characteristic of the hominin lineage

396
00:15:24,710 --> 00:15:22,680
it is also improbable that

397
00:15:27,530 --> 00:15:24,720
extraterrestrial aliens elsewhere in the

398
00:15:30,050 --> 00:15:27,540
universe would evolve to be bipedal and

399
00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:30,060
generally look and act so much like us

400
00:15:34,970 --> 00:15:32,880
furthermore most UFOs seen in

401
00:15:36,829 --> 00:15:34,980
association with these beings have a

402
00:15:39,590 --> 00:15:36,839
form consistent with what we would

403
00:15:42,350 --> 00:15:39,600
expect to see in a craft capable of

404
00:15:44,329 --> 00:15:42,360
manipulating space-time which suggests

405
00:15:46,670 --> 00:15:44,339
these are the very devices that allow

406
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:46,680
our future progeny to venture backward

407
00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:49,440
across the landscape of time

408
00:15:53,569 --> 00:15:51,600
I want to jump into one other

409
00:15:56,689 --> 00:15:53,579
quote here and the Morgan Riff on this

410
00:15:58,850 --> 00:15:56,699
quote although we can't know how ensuing

411
00:16:01,490 --> 00:15:58,860
forces really impact our physiology and

412
00:16:03,889 --> 00:16:01,500
culture examining dominant Trends

413
00:16:06,590 --> 00:16:03,899
throughout the homonym past May provide

414
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:06,600
some insight into our future form

415
00:16:11,569 --> 00:16:09,120
for instance among the most overt and

416
00:16:14,509 --> 00:16:11,579
enduring changes were an increase in

417
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:14,519
size and roundness of our upper skull

418
00:16:19,550 --> 00:16:17,519
and a concomitant reduction and

419
00:16:23,629 --> 00:16:19,560
retraction of our mid and lower facial

420
00:16:25,250 --> 00:16:23,639
Anatomy these craniofacial changes arose

421
00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:25,260
in association with our ancestors

422
00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:28,079
becoming habitually bipedal which

423
00:16:31,550 --> 00:16:30,240
initially occurred six to eight million

424
00:16:33,530 --> 00:16:31,560
years ago

425
00:16:36,290 --> 00:16:33,540
these most Market changes to our

426
00:16:38,210 --> 00:16:36,300
craniofacial architecture persisted and

427
00:16:40,610 --> 00:16:38,220
accelerated through the entirety of

428
00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:40,620
hominin evolution regardless of where we

429
00:16:44,030 --> 00:16:42,480
lived on this planet or what our

430
00:16:46,610 --> 00:16:44,040
environmental conditions were like at

431
00:16:48,829 --> 00:16:46,620
any given time considering the enduring

432
00:16:50,990 --> 00:16:48,839
nature of these and other past Trends

433
00:16:53,870 --> 00:16:51,000
what is observed in the appearance and

434
00:16:56,689 --> 00:16:53,880
behavior of the visitors while alien to

435
00:16:58,189 --> 00:16:56,699
what we are now is entirely consistent

436
00:17:00,590 --> 00:16:58,199
with what has occurred throughout the

437
00:17:04,490 --> 00:17:00,600
human past and what may be the human

438
00:17:09,289 --> 00:17:06,590
good stuff right there I you know one of

439
00:17:11,750 --> 00:17:09,299
the issues I have with uh getting my

440
00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:11,760
breath in my mind around it is

441
00:17:17,210 --> 00:17:14,160
in in this and I've asked Michael

442
00:17:19,730 --> 00:17:17,220
Masters about this as well so I had a

443
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:19,740
chat with him about it but the the

444
00:17:24,710 --> 00:17:21,360
my understanding of evolutionary

445
00:17:27,169 --> 00:17:24,720
pressure is that uh that when things are

446
00:17:31,190 --> 00:17:27,179
advantageous to the propagation of the

447
00:17:34,430 --> 00:17:31,200
species they are passed down through the

448
00:17:36,169 --> 00:17:34,440
you know the gene pool and uh you know

449
00:17:39,950 --> 00:17:36,179
they can be mutations or they can just

450
00:17:42,470 --> 00:17:39,960
be adaptations that you know help that

451
00:17:44,330 --> 00:17:42,480
help that organism survive

452
00:17:46,669 --> 00:17:44,340
um and so I understand the evolutionary

453
00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:46,679
pressures that you know maybe led to the

454
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:49,440
modern homo sapien sapien but what I am

455
00:17:53,630 --> 00:17:51,120
having a harder time understanding is

456
00:17:56,510 --> 00:17:53,640
now that we live in the world we live in

457
00:17:58,970 --> 00:17:56,520
today where the evolutionary pressures

458
00:18:00,590 --> 00:17:58,980
are a little bit different uh it's not

459
00:18:03,529 --> 00:18:00,600
as if I mean look I'm wearing

460
00:18:04,789 --> 00:18:03,539
Correctional lenses right now I can if I

461
00:18:07,970 --> 00:18:04,799
can operate in the world because I've

462
00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:07,980
got eyewear that helps me see clearly if

463
00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:09,840
I didn't have this eyewear you know

464
00:18:13,010 --> 00:18:11,280
maybe I wouldn't navigate the world so

465
00:18:14,510 --> 00:18:13,020
well maybe I you know wouldn't find a

466
00:18:16,070 --> 00:18:14,520
mate maybe I wouldn't have children I

467
00:18:17,390 --> 00:18:16,080
mean that's an extreme example but I

468
00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:17,400
think it's hard to see that as an

469
00:18:22,370 --> 00:18:19,440
example for where I'm going here and

470
00:18:26,029 --> 00:18:22,380
that is you know how do we get from

471
00:18:29,029 --> 00:18:26,039
Modern human to uh sort of gray alien

472
00:18:31,490 --> 00:18:29,039
look looking human without those kinds

473
00:18:35,330 --> 00:18:31,500
of pressures to push us in that

474
00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:35,340
direction unless perhaps uh we ourselves

475
00:18:41,450 --> 00:18:39,120
are taking an active role in hand in

476
00:18:42,770 --> 00:18:41,460
that evolutionary development so perhaps

477
00:18:44,870 --> 00:18:42,780
at some point

478
00:18:47,150 --> 00:18:44,880
we gain a greater Mastery and it's not

479
00:18:49,970 --> 00:18:47,160
hard to imagine this a greater Mastery

480
00:18:52,190 --> 00:18:49,980
over our own physiology and of course we

481
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:52,200
might say well it would be better for us

482
00:18:57,470 --> 00:18:55,679
to have smaller bodies less of a caloric

483
00:18:59,630 --> 00:18:57,480
need there maybe we it's better for us

484
00:19:02,390 --> 00:18:59,640
to have enhanced greater intelligence so

485
00:19:05,630 --> 00:19:02,400
you know let's engineer ourselves to be

486
00:19:08,450 --> 00:19:05,640
more like what we so commonly associate

487
00:19:10,370 --> 00:19:08,460
with as these uh gray alien beings as

488
00:19:12,350 --> 00:19:10,380
just an example so I don't know if he's

489
00:19:13,850 --> 00:19:12,360
if he touches on that in the book or

490
00:19:15,230 --> 00:19:13,860
what with thoughts you might have on it

491
00:19:16,970 --> 00:19:15,240
but that's one that jumps out at me

492
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:16,980
right away

493
00:19:21,770 --> 00:19:19,919
yeah good points and I think

494
00:19:23,330 --> 00:19:21,780
one of the most compelling aspects of

495
00:19:25,250 --> 00:19:23,340
his argument and there's a couple um

496
00:19:26,570 --> 00:19:25,260
there's several actually but but one is

497
00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:26,580
that just to make this really clear and

498
00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:28,320
based on what I just read there he's

499
00:19:31,909 --> 00:19:30,000
saying that already when you just take

500
00:19:34,370 --> 00:19:31,919
the trends that he's already observed

501
00:19:36,470 --> 00:19:34,380
have been part of the hominin line and

502
00:19:39,049 --> 00:19:36,480
you extend those into the future those

503
00:19:41,029 --> 00:19:39,059
Trends alone that already exist would

504
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:41,039
produce something more like a gray alien

505
00:19:44,510 --> 00:19:42,480
right so he's saying some of that is

506
00:19:46,370 --> 00:19:44,520
already in play

507
00:19:48,289 --> 00:19:46,380
now to the point you made about having

508
00:19:50,570 --> 00:19:48,299
corrective lenses and how we do

509
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:50,580
different things to bioengineer

510
00:19:55,070 --> 00:19:53,039
ourselves right uh won't be that far

511
00:19:56,590 --> 00:19:55,080
into the future before people will at

512
00:19:59,270 --> 00:19:56,600
least have the option of sort of custom

513
00:20:00,890 --> 00:19:59,280
coding their children right selecting

514
00:20:03,230 --> 00:20:00,900
certain genes deliberately rather than

515
00:20:07,010 --> 00:20:03,240
being kind of a random process

516
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:07,020
and as we begin to do that

517
00:20:12,289 --> 00:20:09,600
we are effectively changing the way

518
00:20:14,870 --> 00:20:12,299
Evolution works right so

519
00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:14,880
in the past when certain traits were not

520
00:20:18,169 --> 00:20:16,799
advantageous they would that part of the

521
00:20:19,490 --> 00:20:18,179
ancestry would die out they just

522
00:20:20,570 --> 00:20:19,500
wouldn't like you said you you wouldn't

523
00:20:23,690 --> 00:20:20,580
have kids you wouldn't have that

524
00:20:25,789 --> 00:20:23,700
opportunity now we're able to circumvent

525
00:20:28,909 --> 00:20:25,799
that process and actually allow people

526
00:20:32,330 --> 00:20:28,919
with maybe less survival oriented genes

527
00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:32,340
on their own find ways around that but

528
00:20:37,909 --> 00:20:34,559
one of Michael Masters points in the

529
00:20:40,610 --> 00:20:37,919
book is that the long-term effect of

530
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:40,620
that is that we actually are producing

531
00:20:46,070 --> 00:20:43,440
progeny who are less capable of passing

532
00:20:48,289 --> 00:20:46,080
on their genes through the process of

533
00:20:51,650 --> 00:20:48,299
evolution alone so in some ways we are

534
00:20:53,870 --> 00:20:51,660
weakening the the force of evolutionary

535
00:20:56,930 --> 00:20:53,880
pressures kind of thing because we're

536
00:20:59,210 --> 00:20:56,940
we're messing with the the dynamism of

537
00:21:01,250 --> 00:20:59,220
the process right and he also notes that

538
00:21:02,570 --> 00:21:01,260
we've seen this massive decline in sperm

539
00:21:04,190 --> 00:21:02,580
counts

540
00:21:05,870 --> 00:21:04,200
massive when you think about how

541
00:21:08,690 --> 00:21:05,880
recently you know like in the last few

542
00:21:11,210 --> 00:21:08,700
decades just a a really precipitous

543
00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:11,220
decline which makes you wonder what's

544
00:21:13,730 --> 00:21:12,480
that about is it about some

545
00:21:15,710 --> 00:21:13,740
environmental factor that something

546
00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:15,720
we're consuming from the environment now

547
00:21:18,610 --> 00:21:17,520
that we learned that our ancestors

548
00:21:21,350 --> 00:21:18,620
weren't

549
00:21:22,610 --> 00:21:21,360
but you take those things and those

550
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:22,620
points he's making are that these are

551
00:21:26,210 --> 00:21:24,480
things are already a trend he's already

552
00:21:27,289 --> 00:21:26,220
seeing we're talking about some of the

553
00:21:30,350 --> 00:21:27,299
ways that we're beginning to buy

554
00:21:32,149 --> 00:21:30,360
engineer our future

555
00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:32,159
and then you think about the kind of

556
00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:35,280
things that we talk about in this

557
00:21:39,049 --> 00:21:37,440
discourse about this particular topic

558
00:21:40,310 --> 00:21:39,059
around the possibility of a cataclysm

559
00:21:42,110 --> 00:21:40,320
for instance right

560
00:21:43,909 --> 00:21:42,120
and the notion with the cataclysm is if

561
00:21:45,890 --> 00:21:43,919
it involves some sort of for instance

562
00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:45,900
some sort of object from space colliding

563
00:21:49,850 --> 00:21:47,280
with the Earth

564
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:49,860
in which you would have this huge Cloud

565
00:21:54,350 --> 00:21:51,840
sort of cover the surface of the planet

566
00:21:55,730 --> 00:21:54,360
which would reduce the temperature would

567
00:21:56,870 --> 00:21:55,740
greatly reduce the amount of sunlight

568
00:21:59,090 --> 00:21:56,880
coming through

569
00:22:00,289 --> 00:21:59,100
and so you would end up perhaps you

570
00:22:01,730 --> 00:22:00,299
could argue

571
00:22:03,770 --> 00:22:01,740
either just because of the reduced

572
00:22:05,930 --> 00:22:03,780
sunlight or because the conditions on

573
00:22:08,029 --> 00:22:05,940
the surface were so detrimental that you

574
00:22:10,370 --> 00:22:08,039
were forced underground that you could

575
00:22:11,930 --> 00:22:10,380
end up evolving a form even more like a

576
00:22:15,590 --> 00:22:11,940
gray alien when you have much larger

577
00:22:17,090 --> 00:22:15,600
eyes that are basically able to draw in

578
00:22:19,669 --> 00:22:17,100
as much light as possible in a low light

579
00:22:21,289 --> 00:22:19,679
environment right and

580
00:22:24,110 --> 00:22:21,299
you think about different things about

581
00:22:26,990 --> 00:22:24,120
their their aspect the sort of gray skin

582
00:22:29,210 --> 00:22:27,000
again when you don't have direct contact

583
00:22:30,890 --> 00:22:29,220
with the Sun or much reduced contact

584
00:22:32,149 --> 00:22:30,900
with the sun and perhaps living

585
00:22:33,950 --> 00:22:32,159
underground or you're living under a

586
00:22:35,390 --> 00:22:33,960
consistent cloud cover then you might

587
00:22:36,049 --> 00:22:35,400
end up with that kind of pale kind of

588
00:22:38,630 --> 00:22:36,059
skin

589
00:22:39,649 --> 00:22:38,640
you've also got the sense that we talked

590
00:22:43,130 --> 00:22:39,659
about before we went on the air tonight

591
00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:43,140
about what we see with the the onset of

592
00:22:48,649 --> 00:22:46,080
AI and robots is that we could

593
00:22:50,330 --> 00:22:48,659
conceivably be pretty quickly in a

594
00:22:52,970 --> 00:22:50,340
situation where no manual labor would

595
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:52,980
necessarily be necessary right for our

596
00:22:56,990 --> 00:22:54,960
species and if that's the case we would

597
00:22:59,270 --> 00:22:57,000
use our musculature a lot less than we

598
00:23:01,130 --> 00:22:59,280
have historically which when you look at

599
00:23:02,510 --> 00:23:01,140
a gray alien again you see a being that

600
00:23:05,149 --> 00:23:02,520
doesn't have the kind of defined

601
00:23:06,770 --> 00:23:05,159
musculature that we do but that again

602
00:23:09,289 --> 00:23:06,780
when you look at the trans even

603
00:23:12,049 --> 00:23:09,299
technologically it's not a huge stretch

604
00:23:14,149 --> 00:23:12,059
to imagine that we might end up there

605
00:23:15,470 --> 00:23:14,159
yeah that definitely makes more sense

606
00:23:16,250 --> 00:23:15,480
and

607
00:23:18,409 --> 00:23:16,260
um

608
00:23:20,450 --> 00:23:18,419
you know there's another part of this

609
00:23:22,730 --> 00:23:20,460
argument that makes me a little bit sad

610
00:23:24,830 --> 00:23:22,740
because uh I think

611
00:23:28,370 --> 00:23:24,840
a lot and we've touched on this a little

612
00:23:30,169 --> 00:23:28,380
bit in some other episodes but

613
00:23:32,330 --> 00:23:30,179
from all outward appearances the

614
00:23:34,549 --> 00:23:32,340
interactions with and just I'm picking

615
00:23:36,830 --> 00:23:34,559
on the Grays here so it get to the other

616
00:23:38,649 --> 00:23:36,840
ones I'm sure uh but with the

617
00:23:43,870 --> 00:23:38,659
interactions with the Grays seem to be

618
00:23:45,950 --> 00:23:43,880
very kind of stoic uh you know not

619
00:23:48,169 --> 00:23:45,960
characterized in the way that we would

620
00:23:50,750 --> 00:23:48,179
think of of normal modern human

621
00:23:54,590 --> 00:23:50,760
interaction with a lot of hand gestures

622
00:23:56,330 --> 00:23:54,600
or even even using jokes or verbal

623
00:23:58,850 --> 00:23:56,340
communication there doesn't seem to be

624
00:24:01,850 --> 00:23:58,860
an appearance of you know culture

625
00:24:04,610 --> 00:24:01,860
necessarily uh at least and how we are

626
00:24:07,130 --> 00:24:04,620
used to understanding culture

627
00:24:09,590 --> 00:24:07,140
um art you know the the inside of the

628
00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:09,600
craft often are described as essentially

629
00:24:15,169 --> 00:24:12,720
like smooth and colorless and just sort

630
00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:15,179
of empty spaces so there's a there's a

631
00:24:18,110 --> 00:24:16,799
part of me the modern day human part of

632
00:24:21,529 --> 00:24:18,120
me that says well that seems kind of

633
00:24:24,049 --> 00:24:21,539
like a bland future to be in and perhaps

634
00:24:26,210 --> 00:24:24,059
they themselves feel the same or they've

635
00:24:28,490 --> 00:24:26,220
uh kind of evolved to a point where they

636
00:24:31,310 --> 00:24:28,500
no longer refine those things pertinent

637
00:24:33,470 --> 00:24:31,320
or also there's the possibility that the

638
00:24:37,070 --> 00:24:33,480
all those things that we find enjoyable

639
00:24:39,289 --> 00:24:37,080
they may take place in their own uh a

640
00:24:41,630 --> 00:24:39,299
mental space rather than their exterior

641
00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:41,640
spaces it's not hard to imagine that if

642
00:24:47,090 --> 00:24:44,159
you that somehow marry our technology

643
00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:47,100
with our neural activity in in the

644
00:24:51,169 --> 00:24:49,440
trajectory that we're presently on that

645
00:24:53,750 --> 00:24:51,179
everything that's happening inside your

646
00:24:55,610 --> 00:24:53,760
you know your brain could be way more

647
00:24:58,250 --> 00:24:55,620
exciting than what than what is

648
00:24:59,870 --> 00:24:58,260
happening in the world around you

649
00:25:01,430 --> 00:24:59,880
that's a great point and I think that

650
00:25:02,570 --> 00:25:01,440
speaks to some of what I've discussed

651
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:02,580
before in terms of Eastern

652
00:25:06,890 --> 00:25:03,840
understandings of spirituality and

653
00:25:09,289 --> 00:25:06,900
whatnot Zen design and aesthetic tends

654
00:25:11,750 --> 00:25:09,299
to be quite minimalistic

655
00:25:13,909 --> 00:25:11,760
um and I I tend to prefer that

656
00:25:15,649 --> 00:25:13,919
um but

657
00:25:18,529 --> 00:25:15,659
yeah you're right when we think about

658
00:25:21,169 --> 00:25:18,539
how like the rich colors and and flavors

659
00:25:23,149 --> 00:25:21,179
and smells if you step into India right

660
00:25:25,970 --> 00:25:23,159
and you just see like this eruption of

661
00:25:28,549 --> 00:25:25,980
bright vivid colors and and the the

662
00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:28,559
smells of the rich food and whatnot how

663
00:25:33,890 --> 00:25:30,960
that is a stark contrast like you say to

664
00:25:34,970 --> 00:25:33,900
the the supposed alien craft that often

665
00:25:37,430 --> 00:25:34,980
look

666
00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:37,440
like you know rounded kind of Corners

667
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:40,080
usually white very monotone kind of

668
00:25:44,510 --> 00:25:42,720
features we do not see a rich display of

669
00:25:46,010 --> 00:25:44,520
color and whatnot you do not see

670
00:25:48,169 --> 00:25:46,020
paintings on the wall generally you

671
00:25:50,570 --> 00:25:48,179
don't hear about these things right

672
00:25:52,070 --> 00:25:50,580
um but let me just first hit a bit more

673
00:25:54,230 --> 00:25:52,080
on because we want to get into later

674
00:25:55,310 --> 00:25:54,240
this doesn't necessarily preclude the

675
00:25:57,769 --> 00:25:55,320
other possibilities of the other

676
00:25:59,750 --> 00:25:57,779
hypotheses and May in some ways in a

677
00:26:02,330 --> 00:25:59,760
roundabout way actually enable those

678
00:26:04,730 --> 00:26:02,340
other hypotheses to also be trippy true

679
00:26:07,850 --> 00:26:04,740
as a consequence of this

680
00:26:10,190 --> 00:26:07,860
but let's first really key in on

681
00:26:12,110 --> 00:26:10,200
some of the specifics about what make

682
00:26:13,789 --> 00:26:12,120
this particular argument very compelling

683
00:26:16,010 --> 00:26:13,799
and again let's focus on the form

684
00:26:17,810 --> 00:26:16,020
because I think it's easy for us to miss

685
00:26:19,669 --> 00:26:17,820
this because we're used to this form but

686
00:26:21,830 --> 00:26:19,679
when you actually think about how

687
00:26:24,230 --> 00:26:21,840
unlikely and how rare this kind of form

688
00:26:26,330 --> 00:26:24,240
is I think it hits home the point so

689
00:26:29,330 --> 00:26:26,340
quoting from the book again here quote

690
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:29,340
as mentioned above it is improbable that

691
00:26:34,250 --> 00:26:31,440
extraterrestrial aliens would evolve to

692
00:26:36,649 --> 00:26:34,260
look or act like us the odds are very

693
00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:36,659
low then another two-legged upright

694
00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:39,840
walking hominin with two eyes a nose a

695
00:26:44,630 --> 00:26:42,000
mouth five digits on each hand and foot

696
00:26:47,330 --> 00:26:44,640
and an enlarged brain and urocranium

697
00:26:49,549 --> 00:26:47,340
would evolve again in a separate solar

698
00:26:51,409 --> 00:26:49,559
system it is even less likely when

699
00:26:54,470 --> 00:26:51,419
considering the specific environmental

700
00:26:56,990 --> 00:26:54,480
and bio-cultural factors that culminated

701
00:26:59,149 --> 00:26:57,000
in our complex condition making our

702
00:27:01,730 --> 00:26:59,159
species unique among the plethora of

703
00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:01,740
other organisms on the planet

704
00:27:05,570 --> 00:27:03,840
taking into consideration countless

705
00:27:08,210 --> 00:27:05,580
consistent reports provided by

706
00:27:10,250 --> 00:27:08,220
sound-minded individuals who assert that

707
00:27:13,370 --> 00:27:10,260
they have seen or interacted with these

708
00:27:16,190 --> 00:27:13,380
beings both they and US seemingly share

709
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:16,200
numerous derived characteristics unique

710
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:18,240
to the hominin lineage

711
00:27:23,630 --> 00:27:20,640
among the most recognizable of these is

712
00:27:25,909 --> 00:27:23,640
our bipedal form of locomotion or

713
00:27:28,850 --> 00:27:25,919
upright walking which is to trait that

714
00:27:31,010 --> 00:27:28,860
defines our hominin lineage it is

715
00:27:33,890 --> 00:27:31,020
important to note that bipedalism is

716
00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:33,900
incredibly rare among all animals here

717
00:27:38,990 --> 00:27:36,480
on Earth and it is undoubtedly even

718
00:27:41,210 --> 00:27:39,000
rarer on earth like exoplanets elsewhere

719
00:27:43,730 --> 00:27:41,220
in the universe considering most are far

720
00:27:45,409 --> 00:27:43,740
more massive by comparison in fact

721
00:27:47,390 --> 00:27:45,419
according to data obtained by the

722
00:27:49,669 --> 00:27:47,400
exoplanet catalog of the planetary

723
00:27:52,669 --> 00:27:49,679
habituality laboratory at the University

724
00:27:55,090 --> 00:27:52,679
of Puerto Rico at arcebo

725
00:27:58,909 --> 00:27:55,100
only 46 of the

726
00:28:01,610 --> 00:27:58,919
2123 confirmed exoplanets that's 2.27

727
00:28:03,950 --> 00:28:01,620
percent have amassed less than or

728
00:28:05,810 --> 00:28:03,960
equivalent to that of Earth additionally

729
00:28:09,289 --> 00:28:05,820
despite living on a relatively small

730
00:28:12,110 --> 00:28:09,299
planet with gravity of only 9.8 m to the

731
00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:12,120
S squared bipedalism is extremely

732
00:28:15,830 --> 00:28:13,919
uncommon here

733
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:15,840
to the extent that we are the only

734
00:28:19,909 --> 00:28:18,720
mammal that does it full time let that

735
00:28:22,430 --> 00:28:19,919
sink in

736
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:22,440
our bipedal form of locomotion is also

737
00:28:27,049 --> 00:28:24,480
to blame for such discomforts as neck

738
00:28:30,409 --> 00:28:27,059
and back pain knee problems complicated

739
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:30,419
births hemorrhoids hernias fainting and

740
00:28:34,549 --> 00:28:32,880
fractured hips among others the Myriad

741
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:34,559
effects that gravity alone has on

742
00:28:38,570 --> 00:28:36,240
shaping the physical and behavioral

743
00:28:39,710 --> 00:28:38,580
characteristics of an organism suggests

744
00:28:42,409 --> 00:28:39,720
that even if intelligent

745
00:28:45,169 --> 00:28:42,419
extraterrestrial beings do exist we may

746
00:28:47,090 --> 00:28:45,179
be the only Advance bipedal beings in

747
00:28:49,250 --> 00:28:47,100
the galactic neighborhood

748
00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:49,260
reports of Close Encounters also

749
00:28:54,350 --> 00:28:51,360
indicate that we and the visitors share

750
00:28:57,830 --> 00:28:54,360
traits like bilateral symmetry relative

751
00:29:00,529 --> 00:28:57,840
hairlessness dexterous hands sexual

752
00:29:03,289 --> 00:29:00,539
reproduction the lack of a tail which is

753
00:29:06,669 --> 00:29:03,299
also rare on earth a large and globular

754
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:06,679
brain big eyes a small mouth and nose

755
00:29:11,630 --> 00:29:09,840
these shared derived traits are unlikely

756
00:29:13,250 --> 00:29:11,640
to arise in alien creatures that

757
00:29:15,049 --> 00:29:13,260
underwent a separate evolutionary

758
00:29:17,090 --> 00:29:15,059
trajectory on a different planet

759
00:29:19,310 --> 00:29:17,100
elsewhere in the universe other

760
00:29:21,289 --> 00:29:19,320
scientists are also skeptical about the

761
00:29:23,269 --> 00:29:21,299
universality of intelligent life on

762
00:29:25,130 --> 00:29:23,279
other planets or that extraterrestrial

763
00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:25,140
beings would evolve to look anything

764
00:29:29,750 --> 00:29:27,360
like us according to Legendary

765
00:29:31,909 --> 00:29:29,760
cosmologist Carl Sagan and they do my

766
00:29:34,510 --> 00:29:31,919
best Carl Sagan boys here and sure

767
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:34,520
lesion of evolution

768
00:29:40,490 --> 00:29:37,919
is that organisms elsewhere must have

769
00:29:42,049 --> 00:29:40,500
separate evolutionary Pathways that

770
00:29:44,090 --> 00:29:42,059
their chemistry and biology and very

771
00:29:45,889 --> 00:29:44,100
likely their social organism will be

772
00:29:48,409 --> 00:29:45,899
performed or social organization will be

773
00:29:49,970 --> 00:29:48,419
profoundly dissimilar to anything on

774
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:49,980
Earth amongst those billions and

775
00:29:58,070 --> 00:29:55,549
uh yeah so that's pretty compelling I

776
00:30:00,230 --> 00:29:58,080
I'm I'm having a hard time you know

777
00:30:01,970 --> 00:30:00,240
countering the those points of

778
00:30:04,250 --> 00:30:01,980
argumentation there

779
00:30:06,769 --> 00:30:04,260
um you know we have talked about uh you

780
00:30:08,750 --> 00:30:06,779
know another possibility that there is

781
00:30:12,590 --> 00:30:08,760
this sort of cosmic seating program that

782
00:30:14,330 --> 00:30:12,600
maybe that uh the human or hominid uh

783
00:30:16,610 --> 00:30:14,340
you know imprint or template whichever

784
00:30:19,730 --> 00:30:16,620
way you think about it uh exists

785
00:30:21,289 --> 00:30:19,740
throughout the Universe uh that uh and

786
00:30:24,350 --> 00:30:21,299
this is sort of along the lines of

787
00:30:28,610 --> 00:30:24,360
hanspermia as well that uh that we were

788
00:30:31,370 --> 00:30:28,620
seated by our Cosmic Brethren which we

789
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:31,380
share the same hereditary tree

790
00:30:37,090 --> 00:30:35,039
um and perhaps intelligent life forms of

791
00:30:39,850 --> 00:30:37,100
a similar intelligence to humans

792
00:30:42,529 --> 00:30:39,860
requires a lot of the same physiology

793
00:30:45,950 --> 00:30:42,539
that that we happen to have and that

794
00:30:48,669 --> 00:30:45,960
explains the the similarity there both

795
00:30:51,110 --> 00:30:48,679
possibilities are very interesting I I

796
00:30:52,669 --> 00:30:51,120
the if you go all in on the

797
00:30:54,289 --> 00:30:52,679
Extraterrestrial model though I think it

798
00:30:56,210 --> 00:30:54,299
becomes sir

799
00:30:57,889 --> 00:30:56,220
it's a lot it's a lot to Grapple with

800
00:31:00,350 --> 00:30:57,899
because we haven't spent a lot of time

801
00:31:03,950 --> 00:31:00,360
in the community I think unpacking the

802
00:31:06,289 --> 00:31:03,960
implications of it uh and we also don't

803
00:31:08,630 --> 00:31:06,299
like this notion first of all we're bad

804
00:31:10,669 --> 00:31:08,640
at understanding time generally right so

805
00:31:12,889 --> 00:31:10,679
let's let's get that out out there just

806
00:31:16,430 --> 00:31:12,899
on the table we're not good at

807
00:31:18,250 --> 00:31:16,440
understanding time we uh if now you're

808
00:31:21,289 --> 00:31:18,260
telling me that time can be messed with

809
00:31:23,330 --> 00:31:21,299
uh then I get really uncomfortable right

810
00:31:25,370 --> 00:31:23,340
so what exactly are you going to mess

811
00:31:26,930 --> 00:31:25,380
with you're going to mess with uh my

812
00:31:28,070 --> 00:31:26,940
family tree you're going to mess with my

813
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:28,080
culture you're going to mess with you

814
00:31:31,130 --> 00:31:29,760
know all these different things and

815
00:31:33,649 --> 00:31:31,140
where does it stop that's the other

816
00:31:36,049 --> 00:31:33,659
question is how much uh interference is

817
00:31:37,930 --> 00:31:36,059
is really happening there is it

818
00:31:41,210 --> 00:31:37,940
continuous is it every once in a while

819
00:31:43,190 --> 00:31:41,220
uh so how how much has our past been

820
00:31:46,370 --> 00:31:43,200
altered how much has our future been

821
00:31:48,950 --> 00:31:46,380
altered once these I guess interfere uh

822
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:48,960
once the meddlings begin then how many

823
00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:52,080
different branches are then created uh

824
00:31:58,190 --> 00:31:54,960
by the mirror fact of metal building to

825
00:32:02,210 --> 00:31:58,200
begin with right so could that mirror

826
00:32:04,909 --> 00:32:02,220
one act of change in the past cause the

827
00:32:08,029 --> 00:32:04,919
different kinds of beings that we happen

828
00:32:10,070 --> 00:32:08,039
to see right so maybe one interaction

829
00:32:13,010 --> 00:32:10,080
from our future selves traveling back in

830
00:32:15,230 --> 00:32:13,020
time where mantis uh the Mantis

831
00:32:17,510 --> 00:32:15,240
archetype was really prevalent like gave

832
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:17,520
them a leg up somehow and that led to

833
00:32:23,330 --> 00:32:21,360
their dominance on Earth at I I don't

834
00:32:26,510 --> 00:32:23,340
know if I want to say a parallel time to

835
00:32:28,490 --> 00:32:26,520
ours but uh you know resulted in the

836
00:32:31,490 --> 00:32:28,500
nine foot Memphis beings that we've

837
00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:31,500
heard about so it just changes the way

838
00:32:36,289 --> 00:32:33,120
you think about all of these different

839
00:32:37,850 --> 00:32:36,299
beings and their actions and I think it

840
00:32:39,649 --> 00:32:37,860
becomes exciting but just in totally

841
00:32:41,090 --> 00:32:39,659
different ways than than what you

842
00:32:43,010 --> 00:32:41,100
conventionally think of because I

843
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:43,020
conventionally think oh there's mantis

844
00:32:47,090 --> 00:32:45,360
beings from some other planet that I've

845
00:32:49,250 --> 00:32:47,100
not visited that would be cool to visit

846
00:32:51,350 --> 00:32:49,260
they have a whole different you know way

847
00:32:53,029 --> 00:32:51,360
of looking at things and we could travel

848
00:32:55,190 --> 00:32:53,039
there Etc but now you're telling me well

849
00:32:57,350 --> 00:32:55,200
no they actually like evolve on the same

850
00:33:02,210 --> 00:32:57,360
planet that we did just in some sort of

851
00:33:04,909 --> 00:33:03,769
yeah a lot of points you touched on

852
00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:04,919
there and I think we should try to

853
00:33:08,090 --> 00:33:06,480
unpack each of those there's so much to

854
00:33:09,710 --> 00:33:08,100
go into in this

855
00:33:11,269 --> 00:33:09,720
and again I just want to make clear to

856
00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:11,279
people we're not saying we're Landing

857
00:33:15,470 --> 00:33:13,440
here we this is one of the the different

858
00:33:17,330 --> 00:33:15,480
hypotheses to consider has many

859
00:33:19,850 --> 00:33:17,340
compelling elements and again it doesn't

860
00:33:21,769 --> 00:33:19,860
preclude the possibility of other kinds

861
00:33:23,630 --> 00:33:21,779
of beings here that perhaps don't have a

862
00:33:26,210 --> 00:33:23,640
direct lineage connected to us

863
00:33:29,810 --> 00:33:26,220
and I think again my my general tendency

864
00:33:30,590 --> 00:33:29,820
is to say more is more likely that I

865
00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:30,600
think

866
00:33:35,269 --> 00:33:33,360
life finds a way as they they say in

867
00:33:36,889 --> 00:33:35,279
Jurassic Park the Jeff Goldblum

868
00:33:38,930 --> 00:33:36,899
character I think that's likely the case

869
00:33:40,810 --> 00:33:38,940
and I think sometimes the arguments that

870
00:33:42,529 --> 00:33:40,820
are made against the notion of

871
00:33:43,669 --> 00:33:42,539
extraterrestrials for instance that

872
00:33:45,769 --> 00:33:43,679
they're too far away and it would take

873
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:45,779
too long to get here I think those are

874
00:33:50,169 --> 00:33:48,240
remarkably silly arguments actually when

875
00:33:53,210 --> 00:33:50,179
you look at I just saw today someone

876
00:33:54,889 --> 00:33:53,220
showed a graphic of uh the Wright

877
00:33:56,750 --> 00:33:54,899
brothers creating the very first

878
00:33:58,490 --> 00:33:56,760
aircraft and then they showed us

879
00:34:01,149 --> 00:33:58,500
planting the American flag on the moon

880
00:34:04,490 --> 00:34:01,159
and that happened within 66 years

881
00:34:06,110 --> 00:34:04,500
66 years from the Wright brothers first

882
00:34:07,310 --> 00:34:06,120
creating some sort of contraption that

883
00:34:09,169 --> 00:34:07,320
barely got off the ground and didn't

884
00:34:11,810 --> 00:34:09,179
kill somebody to watch landing on the

885
00:34:13,970 --> 00:34:11,820
moon 66 years we're talking here about

886
00:34:16,129 --> 00:34:13,980
beings and civilizations that might be

887
00:34:19,190 --> 00:34:16,139
millions or you know hundreds of

888
00:34:21,770 --> 00:34:19,200
millions of years more advanced no doubt

889
00:34:24,050 --> 00:34:21,780
they will find ways to to interact with

890
00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:24,060
space-time differently than we do and as

891
00:34:27,109 --> 00:34:25,200
we've pointed on this show before

892
00:34:28,669 --> 00:34:27,119
there's all sorts of evidence suggesting

893
00:34:31,490 --> 00:34:28,679
this space time is not what we think it

894
00:34:33,290 --> 00:34:31,500
is that as a construct it's derivative

895
00:34:34,730 --> 00:34:33,300
of some deeper structure so we'll get

896
00:34:37,369 --> 00:34:34,740
into that too there's a lot to get into

897
00:34:38,690 --> 00:34:37,379
here another argument that some people

898
00:34:40,550 --> 00:34:38,700
make

899
00:34:43,190 --> 00:34:40,560
or some people wrestle with with this

900
00:34:46,010 --> 00:34:43,200
particular topic is the notion of Free

901
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:46,020
Will and time travel right because they

902
00:34:50,089 --> 00:34:48,240
ask themselves

903
00:34:52,190 --> 00:34:50,099
based on current physics it's probably

904
00:34:55,010 --> 00:34:52,200
the most common notion

905
00:34:56,990 --> 00:34:55,020
is this notion of the block universe and

906
00:34:58,130 --> 00:34:57,000
with a block Universe you have this

907
00:35:00,710 --> 00:34:58,140
sense that

908
00:35:02,690 --> 00:35:00,720
all space and time already exists in

909
00:35:04,790 --> 00:35:02,700
some form and it's only our unique

910
00:35:07,609 --> 00:35:04,800
experience of going through life what

911
00:35:09,470 --> 00:35:07,619
feels like a linear path that's just

912
00:35:11,450 --> 00:35:09,480
unique to our experience right and

913
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:11,460
unique to our senses and the way we've

914
00:35:16,310 --> 00:35:14,160
evolved all that kind of stuff but

915
00:35:18,829 --> 00:35:16,320
ultimately space and time is a finished

916
00:35:21,410 --> 00:35:18,839
matter and that's that's the block

917
00:35:23,690 --> 00:35:21,420
universe so according to that model you

918
00:35:27,230 --> 00:35:23,700
actually can't change

919
00:35:28,550 --> 00:35:27,240
the past you could visit it but you

920
00:35:30,890 --> 00:35:28,560
couldn't change it because it's already

921
00:35:32,030 --> 00:35:30,900
sort of fully formed and so some people

922
00:35:34,069 --> 00:35:32,040
wrestle with that though because when

923
00:35:35,990 --> 00:35:34,079
they hear that they go so you're saying

924
00:35:37,490 --> 00:35:36,000
that tomorrow I might think that I'm

925
00:35:39,170 --> 00:35:37,500
making a decision to go to here rather

926
00:35:41,450 --> 00:35:39,180
than here but really it's already all

927
00:35:42,890 --> 00:35:41,460
done and I actually have no free will

928
00:35:45,650 --> 00:35:42,900
I think what I would encourage people to

929
00:35:48,589 --> 00:35:45,660
realize there is that our experience is

930
00:35:50,030 --> 00:35:48,599
valid and it's all we know and from our

931
00:35:52,190 --> 00:35:50,040
perspective because this really comes

932
00:35:54,349 --> 00:35:52,200
down to having different perspectives

933
00:35:56,150 --> 00:35:54,359
from our perspective we do have free

934
00:35:58,730 --> 00:35:56,160
will because we don't see the finished

935
00:36:00,349 --> 00:35:58,740
result so we still are making decisions

936
00:36:02,450 --> 00:36:00,359
it's just that in some sense there's

937
00:36:04,490 --> 00:36:02,460
also this finished result which is the

938
00:36:06,829 --> 00:36:04,500
sum total of all those decisions right

939
00:36:09,290 --> 00:36:06,839
so try not to think about it in terms of

940
00:36:11,150 --> 00:36:09,300
time because when you do that that's

941
00:36:13,250 --> 00:36:11,160
when it feels like you get robbed of the

942
00:36:14,569 --> 00:36:13,260
sense of free will but that's really a

943
00:36:16,810 --> 00:36:14,579
categorical mistake in terms of how

944
00:36:20,690 --> 00:36:16,820
we're thinking about it

945
00:36:22,250 --> 00:36:20,700
but and I go ahead yeah well I I the one

946
00:36:24,829 --> 00:36:22,260
thing that I like to think about there

947
00:36:27,770 --> 00:36:24,839
is that uh

948
00:36:31,849 --> 00:36:27,780
there's a there's a kind of pleasure of

949
00:36:33,950 --> 00:36:31,859
the experience of time that we have that

950
00:36:35,810 --> 00:36:33,960
we may in fact volunteer to experience

951
00:36:38,329 --> 00:36:35,820
and we've touched on this a little bit

952
00:36:39,890 --> 00:36:38,339
on other episodes but and I don't want

953
00:36:42,349 --> 00:36:39,900
to go too much on a tangent there but

954
00:36:46,609 --> 00:36:42,359
it's possible that some versions of

955
00:36:47,710 --> 00:36:46,619
ourselves do experience reality in that

956
00:36:50,510 --> 00:36:47,720
block

957
00:36:52,430 --> 00:36:50,520
way and determine so that they can kind

958
00:36:54,770 --> 00:36:52,440
of turn the Block in their hand and see

959
00:36:57,109 --> 00:36:54,780
you know any point in time and what is

960
00:37:00,170 --> 00:36:57,119
happening any point in time and that

961
00:37:01,310 --> 00:37:00,180
might be quite frankly uh not very

962
00:37:03,829 --> 00:37:01,320
exciting

963
00:37:06,410 --> 00:37:03,839
um there is almost a thrill to being

964
00:37:09,349 --> 00:37:06,420
embodied and incarnate in in a body that

965
00:37:11,990 --> 00:37:09,359
that has that perception of time and of

966
00:37:15,230 --> 00:37:12,000
the future being uncertain that there is

967
00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:15,240
there real they're real Stakes you know

968
00:37:20,750 --> 00:37:18,240
that that the decisions that we make

969
00:37:22,849 --> 00:37:20,760
they're meaningful they're not just you

970
00:37:24,829 --> 00:37:22,859
know we're not just like robots uh going

971
00:37:26,569 --> 00:37:24,839
about our way there's a way behind the

972
00:37:29,210 --> 00:37:26,579
decisions we make and I think there's

973
00:37:31,910 --> 00:37:29,220
some value to that in the development of

974
00:37:32,750 --> 00:37:31,920
who we are as individuals

975
00:37:34,849 --> 00:37:32,760
um

976
00:37:37,310 --> 00:37:34,859
anyway that that that came to mind as

977
00:37:39,530 --> 00:37:37,320
you talked about that that concept you

978
00:37:41,210 --> 00:37:39,540
know that's a great point and again I

979
00:37:43,790 --> 00:37:41,220
often bring in the the Eastern

980
00:37:45,950 --> 00:37:43,800
spirituality perspective to this

981
00:37:48,349 --> 00:37:45,960
sort of the Buddhist and Hindu kind of

982
00:37:50,150 --> 00:37:48,359
way of thinking about these matters

983
00:37:53,109 --> 00:37:50,160
Emily think again about our friend

984
00:37:55,970 --> 00:37:53,119
Bernardo castrip and his notion of

985
00:37:57,290 --> 00:37:55,980
analytic idealism and this notion that

986
00:37:59,270 --> 00:37:57,300
consciousness

987
00:38:01,190 --> 00:37:59,280
is primary and everything else like

988
00:38:03,530 --> 00:38:01,200
space-time and whatnot is just

989
00:38:04,849 --> 00:38:03,540
derivative of that you could think about

990
00:38:06,829 --> 00:38:04,859
it along the lines of what you just said

991
00:38:09,050 --> 00:38:06,839
about the importance of feeling like we

992
00:38:10,670 --> 00:38:09,060
have skin in the game is that we're like

993
00:38:12,290 --> 00:38:10,680
characters in a play now you might have

994
00:38:14,510 --> 00:38:12,300
Shakespeare who knows fully what happens

995
00:38:17,150 --> 00:38:14,520
in the fullness of the play but for King

996
00:38:19,730 --> 00:38:17,160
Lear the character

997
00:38:21,470 --> 00:38:19,740
the stakes are real because as his

998
00:38:23,150 --> 00:38:21,480
experience as a character

999
00:38:25,130 --> 00:38:23,160
he really has to make decisions that

1000
00:38:27,109 --> 00:38:25,140
have that have consequences right and we

1001
00:38:29,390 --> 00:38:27,119
actually resonate with the play because

1002
00:38:31,609 --> 00:38:29,400
we are able to feel those consequences

1003
00:38:34,130 --> 00:38:31,619
and the real skin in the game that he

1004
00:38:35,150 --> 00:38:34,140
has a weekend uh employ our humanness

1005
00:38:37,310 --> 00:38:35,160
and thinking about what it would be like

1006
00:38:39,470 --> 00:38:37,320
to be in that that position and because

1007
00:38:41,150 --> 00:38:39,480
we have so much common experience as

1008
00:38:42,530 --> 00:38:41,160
humans we can say

1009
00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:42,540
I can relate to that because I know how

1010
00:38:45,470 --> 00:38:43,920
that would feel

1011
00:38:47,450 --> 00:38:45,480
and we're saying that both of those are

1012
00:38:49,130 --> 00:38:47,460
true that from a absolute point of view

1013
00:38:51,290 --> 00:38:49,140
you can say it's all done so even

1014
00:38:53,710 --> 00:38:51,300
outside of the the block Universe notion

1015
00:38:56,750 --> 00:38:53,720
there's a sense in eastern spirituality

1016
00:38:58,370 --> 00:38:56,760
that everything is is is already

1017
00:39:00,410 --> 00:38:58,380
complete as well and everything's

1018
00:39:02,930 --> 00:39:00,420
actually perfect all right and so you

1019
00:39:04,910 --> 00:39:02,940
have this you have this notion there but

1020
00:39:06,770 --> 00:39:04,920
again from a relative point of view you

1021
00:39:09,170 --> 00:39:06,780
have to have meaningful experience that

1022
00:39:11,329 --> 00:39:09,180
has actual failed consequences because

1023
00:39:13,730 --> 00:39:11,339
that's actually what allows for the

1024
00:39:14,990 --> 00:39:13,740
evolution of Consciousness so here the

1025
00:39:17,210 --> 00:39:15,000
point being that

1026
00:39:19,010 --> 00:39:17,220
so it turns on on its head this notion

1027
00:39:20,930 --> 00:39:19,020
that physicalism is actually primary

1028
00:39:23,630 --> 00:39:20,940
right that that physical stuff actually

1029
00:39:25,849 --> 00:39:23,640
is the the ultimate nature of of all

1030
00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:25,859
that is and actually says no those

1031
00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:28,560
things are created in order to create

1032
00:39:32,329 --> 00:39:30,240
these stage plays that allow for the

1033
00:39:33,829 --> 00:39:32,339
evolution of Consciousness in these

1034
00:39:36,890 --> 00:39:33,839
different relative

1035
00:39:38,450 --> 00:39:36,900
uh but still meaningful sort of stage

1036
00:39:39,650 --> 00:39:38,460
plays and so that's what we're talking

1037
00:39:41,210 --> 00:39:39,660
about here

1038
00:39:43,069 --> 00:39:41,220
so there's there's a lot to wrap around

1039
00:39:44,390 --> 00:39:43,079
but I I would just encourage people not

1040
00:39:46,069 --> 00:39:44,400
to

1041
00:39:47,630 --> 00:39:46,079
abandon this just because they don't

1042
00:39:49,370 --> 00:39:47,640
like the feel of not having any kind of

1043
00:39:50,690 --> 00:39:49,380
free will I think that's really is the

1044
00:39:52,609 --> 00:39:50,700
wrong way of looking at it from our

1045
00:39:55,370 --> 00:39:52,619
perspective we do have free will and we

1046
00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:55,380
do have skin in the game

1047
00:40:00,050 --> 00:39:57,359
but when you think about

1048
00:40:01,750 --> 00:40:00,060
how this sits for you

1049
00:40:06,310 --> 00:40:01,760
after what we talked about at this point

1050
00:40:08,450 --> 00:40:06,320
does it feel less miraculous or less

1051
00:40:10,609 --> 00:40:08,460
awe-inspiring to you

1052
00:40:12,290 --> 00:40:10,619
does it answer the question of are we

1053
00:40:13,849 --> 00:40:12,300
alone differently for you when you think

1054
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:13,859
about the possibility before we get to

1055
00:40:18,710 --> 00:40:16,560
the other hypotheses of this notion that

1056
00:40:20,630 --> 00:40:18,720
these beings on the one hand they're

1057
00:40:22,790 --> 00:40:20,640
connected to us we feel a kind of

1058
00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:22,800
familial connection but it also means

1059
00:40:26,450 --> 00:40:24,720
that they're not necessarily coming from

1060
00:40:28,010 --> 00:40:26,460
Andromeda or

1061
00:40:29,630 --> 00:40:28,020
although we'll get into how that can

1062
00:40:31,310 --> 00:40:29,640
also be the case but assuming for a

1063
00:40:33,730 --> 00:40:31,320
second we take that out of it how does

1064
00:40:36,470 --> 00:40:33,740
it land for you does it feel as as

1065
00:40:38,210 --> 00:40:36,480
awe-inspiring as much of a a real

1066
00:40:40,370 --> 00:40:38,220
changing of a chapter or changing of a

1067
00:40:42,109 --> 00:40:40,380
page or does it seem somehow like it

1068
00:40:45,010 --> 00:40:42,119
brings everything down and becomes less

1069
00:40:48,530 --> 00:40:45,020
rare than it would be otherwise

1070
00:40:51,050 --> 00:40:48,540
you know what it strikes me as strange

1071
00:40:52,970 --> 00:40:51,060
in the way that the future would be

1072
00:40:56,569 --> 00:40:52,980
strange that

1073
00:40:59,210 --> 00:40:56,579
that oftentimes we

1074
00:41:01,790 --> 00:40:59,220
are our Notions of the future are sort

1075
00:41:04,190 --> 00:41:01,800
of easily extractable from where we are

1076
00:41:06,470 --> 00:41:04,200
at the moment like they're not far away

1077
00:41:08,750 --> 00:41:06,480
they're pretty tangential to what

1078
00:41:10,010 --> 00:41:08,760
reality looks like for us in the present

1079
00:41:13,490 --> 00:41:10,020
experience

1080
00:41:17,270 --> 00:41:13,500
but this concept of time travel as a

1081
00:41:21,290 --> 00:41:17,280
real thing uh opens up so many different

1082
00:41:24,170 --> 00:41:21,300
possibilities to a weird future to a

1083
00:41:27,170 --> 00:41:24,180
weird reality that there's something

1084
00:41:29,750 --> 00:41:27,180
that Rings true to me about that that

1085
00:41:31,670 --> 00:41:29,760
that that that in the same way that if I

1086
00:41:34,910 --> 00:41:31,680
were to look back in our own history and

1087
00:41:38,329 --> 00:41:34,920
go okay if I were alive in the first

1088
00:41:40,609 --> 00:41:38,339
century and I were to step into the 21st

1089
00:41:43,130 --> 00:41:40,619
century and just look around and

1090
00:41:46,069 --> 00:41:43,140
interact with the the humans of that day

1091
00:41:49,190 --> 00:41:46,079
it would be weird beyond my ability to

1092
00:41:51,950 --> 00:41:49,200
even comprehend it it would be a very

1093
00:41:54,069 --> 00:41:51,960
strange and discombobulating have to use

1094
00:41:56,750 --> 00:41:54,079
that once in the aluminum frames episode

1095
00:41:59,870 --> 00:41:56,760
experience and and I think that's the

1096
00:42:03,230 --> 00:41:59,880
same feeling that I'm having when I

1097
00:42:06,050 --> 00:42:03,240
entertain this notion that a reality in

1098
00:42:08,770 --> 00:42:06,060
which time travel exists and everything

1099
00:42:12,230 --> 00:42:08,780
that that entails

1100
00:42:16,310 --> 00:42:12,240
you know is fantastically wild and weird

1101
00:42:18,370 --> 00:42:16,320
and strange and amazing and and opens up

1102
00:42:22,490 --> 00:42:18,380
so many different possibility spaces

1103
00:42:24,050 --> 00:42:22,500
that it becomes incredibly exciting

1104
00:42:27,050 --> 00:42:24,060
um at the same time I feel like there's

1105
00:42:30,290 --> 00:42:28,910
I don't know if it's responsibility like

1106
00:42:32,810 --> 00:42:30,300
who's in charge of the time travel

1107
00:42:35,329 --> 00:42:32,820
machines you know who get gets to decide

1108
00:42:37,130 --> 00:42:35,339
who's traveling where and when and what

1109
00:42:40,010 --> 00:42:37,140
they're doing are there more than one

1110
00:42:42,430 --> 00:42:40,020
factions at work there uh once you start

1111
00:42:44,990 --> 00:42:42,440
kind of going off in different timelines

1112
00:42:47,150 --> 00:42:45,000
uh and and depending on how far you're

1113
00:42:49,730 --> 00:42:47,160
going into the past into the future of

1114
00:42:51,230 --> 00:42:49,740
returning to the present etc etc it's

1115
00:42:54,470 --> 00:42:51,240
almost like every time that you make

1116
00:42:56,390 --> 00:42:54,480
that jump a a big change has occurred

1117
00:42:59,630 --> 00:42:56,400
when you return to quote unquote you're

1118
00:43:02,390 --> 00:42:59,640
present such that it it may look alien

1119
00:43:04,870 --> 00:43:02,400
to you in many many different ways and

1120
00:43:08,750 --> 00:43:04,880
that could explain the kind of wide

1121
00:43:11,630 --> 00:43:08,760
variety of experiences that are are in

1122
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:11,640
the literature not only of beings but of

1123
00:43:16,990 --> 00:43:14,400
behaviors Etc but at the same time they

1124
00:43:20,390 --> 00:43:17,000
have like you said some similar

1125
00:43:24,109 --> 00:43:20,400
qualities and characteristics because

1126
00:43:27,410 --> 00:43:24,119
the Earth is essentially home base

1127
00:43:30,290 --> 00:43:27,420
for all of this it's the Nexus for all

1128
00:43:33,410 --> 00:43:30,300
of this activity uh it holds a special

1129
00:43:36,290 --> 00:43:33,420
place and that is uh pretty neat to

1130
00:43:41,270 --> 00:43:36,300
think about as the Cradle of this

1131
00:43:45,710 --> 00:43:42,710
right I wonder if he even think about it

1132
00:43:47,930 --> 00:43:45,720
in terms of this so so because there is

1133
00:43:50,150 --> 00:43:47,940
just an immense

1134
00:43:51,890 --> 00:43:50,160
spatial structure to the cosmos again

1135
00:43:54,050 --> 00:43:51,900
we're going to get to I think how space

1136
00:43:56,809 --> 00:43:54,060
and time are not ultimately real in some

1137
00:43:59,270 --> 00:43:56,819
sense but the appearance is anyway of a

1138
00:44:00,710 --> 00:43:59,280
of a universe that is so massive that

1139
00:44:02,390 --> 00:44:00,720
actually when we talk about the universe

1140
00:44:04,809 --> 00:44:02,400
we actually should be talking about the

1141
00:44:09,050 --> 00:44:04,819
the observable universe right because

1142
00:44:10,910 --> 00:44:09,060
the universe is so massive that many

1143
00:44:13,250 --> 00:44:10,920
many many aspects of it

1144
00:44:14,809 --> 00:44:13,260
the star systems and galaxies are so far

1145
00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:14,819
away that the light hasn't even had a

1146
00:44:18,530 --> 00:44:16,800
chance to get to us yet since the

1147
00:44:19,790 --> 00:44:18,540
beginning of the cosmos according to the

1148
00:44:22,250 --> 00:44:19,800
the current model

1149
00:44:23,630 --> 00:44:22,260
so that is astonishing even when you

1150
00:44:25,309 --> 00:44:23,640
sort of wrap your human mind around that

1151
00:44:26,870 --> 00:44:25,319
right if someone says well why wouldn't

1152
00:44:28,730 --> 00:44:26,880
I be able to see that far away is

1153
00:44:30,710 --> 00:44:28,740
because they're too dim it's like no

1154
00:44:33,470 --> 00:44:30,720
actually the light hasn't even had

1155
00:44:35,510 --> 00:44:33,480
enough time to get to us to create the

1156
00:44:38,030 --> 00:44:35,520
visual impression of there being a star

1157
00:44:40,069 --> 00:44:38,040
there or a planet right which again is

1158
00:44:42,650 --> 00:44:40,079
really mind-blowing

1159
00:44:44,630 --> 00:44:42,660
but I think we also should reckon with

1160
00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:44,640
some of the common

1161
00:44:49,490 --> 00:44:47,280
complaints that people rise or lift up

1162
00:44:51,290 --> 00:44:49,500
in terms of why time travel couldn't

1163
00:44:53,750 --> 00:44:51,300
happen right so one of them is the the

1164
00:44:54,829 --> 00:44:53,760
grandfather Paradox right this notion

1165
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:54,839
that

1166
00:44:59,390 --> 00:44:57,119
something seems off here because if you

1167
00:45:01,550 --> 00:44:59,400
go back into the past and kill your

1168
00:45:03,290 --> 00:45:01,560
grandfather before he has the chance to

1169
00:45:05,930 --> 00:45:03,300
meet your grandmother and conceive your

1170
00:45:07,550 --> 00:45:05,940
father how did you ever become born to

1171
00:45:09,950 --> 00:45:07,560
go back and kill your grandfather right

1172
00:45:10,849 --> 00:45:09,960
we have these kinds of things and from

1173
00:45:12,829 --> 00:45:10,859
there

1174
00:45:14,030 --> 00:45:12,839
we have this notion of one of the ways

1175
00:45:16,190 --> 00:45:14,040
that that's dealt with this is this

1176
00:45:17,809 --> 00:45:16,200
notion of the many worlds uh

1177
00:45:20,750 --> 00:45:17,819
interpretation of quantum mechanics

1178
00:45:22,790 --> 00:45:20,760
where we have like multiple parallel

1179
00:45:23,990 --> 00:45:22,800
universes kind of thing and so according

1180
00:45:26,510 --> 00:45:24,000
to this whenever these different

1181
00:45:29,210 --> 00:45:26,520
decisions points are come to that a

1182
00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:29,220
universe kind of splits off from the

1183
00:45:33,950 --> 00:45:31,440
previous one so when you go back and

1184
00:45:35,270 --> 00:45:33,960
change time then what you basically do

1185
00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:35,280
is you split off and create a new

1186
00:45:39,410 --> 00:45:37,680
timeline is the way it goes and there's

1187
00:45:42,069 --> 00:45:39,420
actually no

1188
00:45:44,690 --> 00:45:42,079
um issue with that no contradiction

1189
00:45:46,250 --> 00:45:44,700
because you did exist in that timeline

1190
00:45:48,890 --> 00:45:46,260
so then from then on in that new

1191
00:45:51,050 --> 00:45:48,900
timeline you exist even though you are

1192
00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:51,060
the product of another timeline that

1193
00:45:55,550 --> 00:45:53,760
came in and changed this one course and

1194
00:45:57,170 --> 00:45:55,560
just to be clear on what the many worlds

1195
00:45:58,910 --> 00:45:57,180
interpretation of quantum mechanics is I

1196
00:46:00,650 --> 00:45:58,920
want to read that

1197
00:46:02,450 --> 00:46:00,660
the many world's interpretation of

1198
00:46:05,510 --> 00:46:02,460
quantum mechanics holds that there are

1199
00:46:08,210 --> 00:46:05,520
many worlds which exist in parallel at

1200
00:46:09,890 --> 00:46:08,220
the same space and time as our own the

1201
00:46:12,349 --> 00:46:09,900
existence of other worlds makes it

1202
00:46:14,990 --> 00:46:12,359
possible to remove Randomness and action

1203
00:46:17,150 --> 00:46:15,000
at a distance from quantum theory and

1204
00:46:18,829 --> 00:46:17,160
thus from all physics

1205
00:46:20,569 --> 00:46:18,839
so again we talked about this before we

1206
00:46:22,130 --> 00:46:20,579
went on the Air Tonight number one point

1207
00:46:23,870 --> 00:46:22,140
we're going to make is that there's zero

1208
00:46:26,210 --> 00:46:23,880
empirical evidence for these multiple

1209
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:26,220
universes this is a a notion that was

1210
00:46:31,250 --> 00:46:28,800
thought up to explain some of the

1211
00:46:33,470 --> 00:46:31,260
strangeness we see with quantum theory

1212
00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:33,480
and when we look at our universe

1213
00:46:38,390 --> 00:46:37,200
seemingly so custom crafted for life to

1214
00:46:40,790 --> 00:46:38,400
evolve

1215
00:46:43,490 --> 00:46:40,800
that seems to some people would suggest

1216
00:46:45,650 --> 00:46:43,500
hint at some sort of source or creator

1217
00:46:47,210 --> 00:46:45,660
that set up the conditions in just such

1218
00:46:48,829 --> 00:46:47,220
a way that it would be conducive to life

1219
00:46:51,349 --> 00:46:48,839
eventually forming and eventually

1220
00:46:52,970 --> 00:46:51,359
Advance life evolving like us so one of

1221
00:46:54,829 --> 00:46:52,980
the ways this is dealt with in the many

1222
00:46:57,290 --> 00:46:54,839
worlds interpretation of quantum

1223
00:46:59,510 --> 00:46:57,300
mechanics is that no we just happen to

1224
00:47:01,430 --> 00:46:59,520
be of course in the universe which is

1225
00:47:03,950 --> 00:47:01,440
the one example of one where that did

1226
00:47:06,050 --> 00:47:03,960
become possible but there's Myriad other

1227
00:47:07,790 --> 00:47:06,060
kinds of universes parallel to this one

1228
00:47:10,250 --> 00:47:07,800
where the physics is all slightly

1229
00:47:12,470 --> 00:47:10,260
different and that we would never have

1230
00:47:14,210 --> 00:47:12,480
Arisen nor would any life right because

1231
00:47:15,470 --> 00:47:14,220
one of the things is talked about is

1232
00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:15,480
that if even there was a little bit

1233
00:47:19,490 --> 00:47:17,520
higher concentration of oxygen in our

1234
00:47:21,109 --> 00:47:19,500
atmosphere the planet would burn up

1235
00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:21,119
right but you would never have fires

1236
00:47:24,890 --> 00:47:22,800
going out little things that seem so

1237
00:47:26,690 --> 00:47:24,900
custom crafted so this notion of the

1238
00:47:29,270 --> 00:47:26,700
many worlds interpretation was a way of

1239
00:47:31,970 --> 00:47:29,280
getting around that but again the key

1240
00:47:33,650 --> 00:47:31,980
there is that really it arose as a way

1241
00:47:36,470 --> 00:47:33,660
to deal with some of the strangeness

1242
00:47:38,030 --> 00:47:36,480
that was being empirically observed with

1243
00:47:40,370 --> 00:47:38,040
quantum mechanics and we had zero

1244
00:47:43,069 --> 00:47:40,380
empirical evidence that this these many

1245
00:47:44,510 --> 00:47:43,079
worlds actually exist so

1246
00:47:45,890 --> 00:47:44,520
what do you think about that when you

1247
00:47:48,770 --> 00:47:45,900
when you try to wrestle with that and

1248
00:47:52,550 --> 00:47:48,780
and time travel well I've never really

1249
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:52,560
liked the many worlds uh explanation I

1250
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:55,680
like it from a romantic notion in the

1251
00:48:00,290 --> 00:47:57,599
sense that it's kind of

1252
00:48:02,329 --> 00:48:00,300
cool to think about every time you or I

1253
00:48:04,190 --> 00:48:02,339
are faced with a decision there's a

1254
00:48:06,230 --> 00:48:04,200
version of URI somewhere that made the

1255
00:48:09,710 --> 00:48:06,240
other decision and is living

1256
00:48:12,770 --> 00:48:09,720
a different life path from that juncture

1257
00:48:14,569 --> 00:48:12,780
and so where that is sort of a fun

1258
00:48:15,950 --> 00:48:14,579
notion to entertain for me is just

1259
00:48:17,270 --> 00:48:15,960
thinking about the things that in your

1260
00:48:18,650 --> 00:48:17,280
own life where you look back and like

1261
00:48:20,450 --> 00:48:18,660
what if I did this what if I did that

1262
00:48:23,930 --> 00:48:20,460
and I think well there's a version of

1263
00:48:27,290 --> 00:48:23,940
Nathan somewhere out in in another world

1264
00:48:29,450 --> 00:48:27,300
that is living the consequences of that

1265
00:48:31,609 --> 00:48:29,460
choice and uh and we'll just let that

1266
00:48:34,910 --> 00:48:31,619
Nathan enjoy the experience that it's

1267
00:48:37,430 --> 00:48:34,920
having parallel to my own right

1268
00:48:39,770 --> 00:48:37,440
um so from a romantic sense I think it's

1269
00:48:41,569 --> 00:48:39,780
kind of an exciting way to look at

1270
00:48:43,550 --> 00:48:41,579
things but I never really found that it

1271
00:48:46,010 --> 00:48:43,560
made a lot of sense to me just from a

1272
00:48:49,370 --> 00:48:46,020
kind of explanatory power or explanatory

1273
00:48:52,130 --> 00:48:49,380
model of of how things work

1274
00:48:53,870 --> 00:48:52,140
um you know but going from there I guess

1275
00:48:55,849 --> 00:48:53,880
I I naturally kind of think about the

1276
00:48:58,430 --> 00:48:55,859
interdimensional aspect you know how

1277
00:48:59,990 --> 00:48:58,440
does that sort of fit in with our we've

1278
00:49:03,349 --> 00:49:00,000
talked about before this notion of an

1279
00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:03,359
interdimensional uh hypothesis that um

1280
00:49:07,849 --> 00:49:05,760
and and the many others as well of

1281
00:49:10,970 --> 00:49:07,859
beings from all kinds of different

1282
00:49:12,589 --> 00:49:10,980
places other than just our our temporal

1283
00:49:15,130 --> 00:49:12,599
frame

1284
00:49:17,809 --> 00:49:15,140
exactly that's uh something again

1285
00:49:19,130 --> 00:49:17,819
Bernardo Castro will point out he really

1286
00:49:21,410 --> 00:49:19,140
likes to hit on this fact that there's

1287
00:49:22,730 --> 00:49:21,420
zero empirical evidence for the many

1288
00:49:26,210 --> 00:49:22,740
world's interpretation of quantum

1289
00:49:30,170 --> 00:49:26,220
mechanics and again part of that

1290
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:30,180
notion is fueled by this desire to make

1291
00:49:34,370 --> 00:49:32,160
physical stuff

1292
00:49:36,050 --> 00:49:34,380
the ultimate nature of reality right so

1293
00:49:39,050 --> 00:49:36,060
that the way that you handle that is to

1294
00:49:40,670 --> 00:49:39,060
say well the way we can make sense of

1295
00:49:42,650 --> 00:49:40,680
this is that basically when you have a

1296
00:49:43,970 --> 00:49:42,660
Quantum experiment where two

1297
00:49:46,609 --> 00:49:43,980
possibilities exist or multiple

1298
00:49:49,190 --> 00:49:46,619
possibilities actually what happens but

1299
00:49:52,190 --> 00:49:49,200
we're not aware of it is that all

1300
00:49:56,329 --> 00:49:54,290
you know possibilities

1301
00:49:58,250 --> 00:49:56,339
are fulfilled in different universes

1302
00:50:00,410 --> 00:49:58,260
that's basically the notion there that

1303
00:50:02,510 --> 00:50:00,420
if some could be heads or tails every

1304
00:50:04,010 --> 00:50:02,520
time you flip a coin there's one reality

1305
00:50:06,250 --> 00:50:04,020
created where it was ahead one reality

1306
00:50:09,050 --> 00:50:06,260
where it was a tail and you just imagine

1307
00:50:11,109 --> 00:50:09,060
the notion is that scales out for every

1308
00:50:14,089 --> 00:50:11,119
single decision point that every

1309
00:50:15,530 --> 00:50:14,099
possible eventuality does become a

1310
00:50:18,290 --> 00:50:15,540
separate Universe basically but again

1311
00:50:20,390 --> 00:50:18,300
it's a tidy way of dealing with some

1312
00:50:23,089 --> 00:50:20,400
complexity but again we have zero

1313
00:50:24,470 --> 00:50:23,099
empirical evidence for it and bernardo's

1314
00:50:26,569 --> 00:50:24,480
point would be that

1315
00:50:28,790 --> 00:50:26,579
it also hinges on this notion that

1316
00:50:31,490 --> 00:50:28,800
physical reality is the ultimate nature

1317
00:50:33,710 --> 00:50:31,500
of reality but actually if Consciousness

1318
00:50:36,530 --> 00:50:33,720
is the substrate which gives rise to

1319
00:50:37,490 --> 00:50:36,540
what appears like physical reality then

1320
00:50:38,990 --> 00:50:37,500
you could think about different

1321
00:50:41,210 --> 00:50:39,000
dimensions more like different

1322
00:50:45,290 --> 00:50:41,220
mindscapes or mind spaces right

1323
00:50:47,690 --> 00:50:45,300
different dreams that beings exist in

1324
00:50:49,549 --> 00:50:47,700
almost like you have an ultimate mind

1325
00:50:52,790 --> 00:50:49,559
in which these different dreams and

1326
00:50:54,770 --> 00:50:52,800
Visions are are imagined and as soon as

1327
00:50:56,390 --> 00:50:54,780
that happens then you have a reality

1328
00:50:59,270 --> 00:50:56,400
that reflects that and you have beings

1329
00:51:00,710 --> 00:50:59,280
that have the appearance of of of what

1330
00:51:02,809 --> 00:51:00,720
feels like a physical reality this

1331
00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:02,819
relates to what I've said before where

1332
00:51:06,470 --> 00:51:04,800
I've had lucid dreams

1333
00:51:08,510 --> 00:51:06,480
where I

1334
00:51:10,490 --> 00:51:08,520
become Lucid in them meaning that you

1335
00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:10,500
recognize that you're in a dream

1336
00:51:16,190 --> 00:51:13,440
and I've gone about that world trying to

1337
00:51:18,589 --> 00:51:16,200
see how physical it feels in comparison

1338
00:51:20,990 --> 00:51:18,599
to this waking reality and I've not been

1339
00:51:23,150 --> 00:51:21,000
able to distinguish any way of knowing

1340
00:51:25,609 --> 00:51:23,160
that that is actually just a Dreamscape

1341
00:51:28,010 --> 00:51:25,619
and not quote unquote the real world I

1342
00:51:30,890 --> 00:51:28,020
can as I said before rub my palm up

1343
00:51:32,750 --> 00:51:30,900
against a rough brick wall and feel the

1344
00:51:34,609 --> 00:51:32,760
tearing of my skin I can get down and

1345
00:51:36,230 --> 00:51:34,619
smell the grass and almost like feel

1346
00:51:38,270 --> 00:51:36,240
like myself having an allergic reaction

1347
00:51:41,089 --> 00:51:38,280
from allergies

1348
00:51:42,770 --> 00:51:41,099
and I can see like microscopically all

1349
00:51:44,390 --> 00:51:42,780
of the the different elements of the

1350
00:51:48,230 --> 00:51:44,400
soil and little bugs walking across the

1351
00:51:50,809 --> 00:51:48,240
grass so it feels completely consistent

1352
00:51:52,730 --> 00:51:50,819
and coherent as a physical reality so

1353
00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:52,740
the notion there again is that once

1354
00:51:56,450 --> 00:51:54,720
you've had that experience you come back

1355
00:51:57,770 --> 00:51:56,460
to this one and you go

1356
00:52:00,170 --> 00:51:57,780
if I can't

1357
00:52:01,670 --> 00:52:00,180
in any empirical way based on what I'm

1358
00:52:03,589 --> 00:52:01,680
actually trying in my own experiments

1359
00:52:05,870 --> 00:52:03,599
demonstrate that that's a Dreamscape and

1360
00:52:07,849 --> 00:52:05,880
not a physical world then how can I do

1361
00:52:10,849 --> 00:52:07,859
that here any better and I really can't

1362
00:52:14,270 --> 00:52:10,859
so this really makes me think about

1363
00:52:15,890 --> 00:52:14,280
about this and that I I really do think

1364
00:52:16,849 --> 00:52:15,900
the way we think about space and time is

1365
00:52:20,210 --> 00:52:16,859
different when we have this

1366
00:52:22,309 --> 00:52:20,220
Consciousness as primary piece and I do

1367
00:52:24,770 --> 00:52:22,319
want to get into the fact that

1368
00:52:27,349 --> 00:52:24,780
space-time as we've said before

1369
00:52:30,109 --> 00:52:27,359
according to Nima or Kani Hamed often

1370
00:52:31,250 --> 00:52:30,119
quoted by Donald Hoffman SpaceTime is

1371
00:52:33,109 --> 00:52:31,260
doomed

1372
00:52:35,049 --> 00:52:33,119
so let's let's unpack this for a little

1373
00:52:38,089 --> 00:52:35,059
bit so the notion here is not that

1374
00:52:40,190 --> 00:52:38,099
space-time is going to blow up what he

1375
00:52:43,130 --> 00:52:40,200
means is that as a model as an

1376
00:52:45,710 --> 00:52:43,140
explanatory model for reality it is

1377
00:52:48,589 --> 00:52:45,720
already been shown to be untenable we

1378
00:52:50,809 --> 00:52:48,599
already have enough evidence data math

1379
00:52:53,150 --> 00:52:50,819
the implications of the math to suggest

1380
00:52:55,250 --> 00:52:53,160
that there must be a reality that is

1381
00:52:56,630 --> 00:52:55,260
deeper than what we perceive as

1382
00:52:58,730 --> 00:52:56,640
space-time and things like quantum

1383
00:53:01,309 --> 00:52:58,740
theory and from this deeper structure

1384
00:53:03,470 --> 00:53:01,319
you get the derivative appearances of

1385
00:53:06,710 --> 00:53:03,480
things like space-time and quantum

1386
00:53:09,349 --> 00:53:06,720
theory so what we're seeing here and I

1387
00:53:12,049 --> 00:53:09,359
think this is really key is that we have

1388
00:53:14,390 --> 00:53:12,059
to remember that space time if it's not

1389
00:53:17,210 --> 00:53:14,400
foundational if it's actually derivative

1390
00:53:18,890 --> 00:53:17,220
of some deeper structure then these

1391
00:53:20,210 --> 00:53:18,900
beings might be aware of the deeper

1392
00:53:22,309 --> 00:53:20,220
structure there's a lot of evidence that

1393
00:53:25,609 --> 00:53:22,319
they actually are they often do say to

1394
00:53:27,349 --> 00:53:25,619
experiencers add the t's contactees that

1395
00:53:29,150 --> 00:53:27,359
space-time is not really real the time

1396
00:53:33,950 --> 00:53:29,160
is not really real that our experience

1397
00:53:35,990 --> 00:53:33,960
of of living is largely a myth an

1398
00:53:38,150 --> 00:53:36,000
evolutionary derived myth according to

1399
00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:38,160
Donald Hoffman and often people are

1400
00:53:43,130 --> 00:53:41,520
taken by these beings into a realm that

1401
00:53:45,410 --> 00:53:43,140
seems to be outside of space-time

1402
00:53:47,809 --> 00:53:45,420
altogether now of course that's hard for

1403
00:53:49,910 --> 00:53:47,819
us to reconcile or reckon with because

1404
00:53:52,130 --> 00:53:49,920
we most of us have not had that

1405
00:53:53,809 --> 00:53:52,140
experience although I think even in

1406
00:53:55,670 --> 00:53:53,819
psychedelic Journeys you can often have

1407
00:53:57,410 --> 00:53:55,680
those kinds of experiences

1408
00:53:58,670 --> 00:53:57,420
in their death experiences you have

1409
00:54:00,049 --> 00:53:58,680
those kind of experiences and out of

1410
00:54:01,370 --> 00:54:00,059
body experiences you have those kind of

1411
00:54:04,309 --> 00:54:01,380
experiences

1412
00:54:06,470 --> 00:54:04,319
so we also have people have para you

1413
00:54:09,230 --> 00:54:06,480
know parapsychological kind of effects

1414
00:54:11,870 --> 00:54:09,240
like telepathy and precognition which

1415
00:54:14,690 --> 00:54:11,880
again seemed to be happening outside the

1416
00:54:17,230 --> 00:54:14,700
bounds of space-time as we understand it

1417
00:54:18,910 --> 00:54:17,240
but the notion here is that think about

1418
00:54:25,730 --> 00:54:18,920
a

1419
00:54:27,950 --> 00:54:25,740
construct

1420
00:54:29,450 --> 00:54:27,960
so we may see and some people have even

1421
00:54:30,890 --> 00:54:29,460
suggested that when we see some of these

1422
00:54:33,049 --> 00:54:30,900
objects in the sky they seem to be

1423
00:54:34,730 --> 00:54:33,059
changing shape it may be not because

1424
00:54:36,410 --> 00:54:34,740
they're actually changing shape but but

1425
00:54:38,750 --> 00:54:36,420
that's what the way it appears to us

1426
00:54:40,849 --> 00:54:38,760
than a three-dimensional construct plus

1427
00:54:43,370 --> 00:54:40,859
one for time when you have a higher

1428
00:54:45,530 --> 00:54:43,380
dimensional object being translated into

1429
00:54:48,470 --> 00:54:45,540
a lower dimensional frame I know this is

1430
00:54:50,690 --> 00:54:48,480
getting super complex but I've raised

1431
00:54:52,250 --> 00:54:50,700
this to point out that they may be

1432
00:54:54,589 --> 00:54:52,260
actually operating with those different

1433
00:54:57,829 --> 00:54:54,599
and higher number of dimensions in play

1434
00:55:00,170 --> 00:54:57,839
and to us the way it looks to us the

1435
00:55:03,049 --> 00:55:00,180
appearance is of beings moving through

1436
00:55:06,069 --> 00:55:03,059
what we perceive as space and time

1437
00:55:12,650 --> 00:55:08,750
where do I begin here all right so I

1438
00:55:14,030 --> 00:55:12,660
love that uh I love that um I love the

1439
00:55:16,370 --> 00:55:14,040
complexity of it

1440
00:55:18,890 --> 00:55:16,380
um but I I I'm curious right I'm curious

1441
00:55:22,430 --> 00:55:18,900
about whether or not for example if if

1442
00:55:24,770 --> 00:55:22,440
we break this time travel to crack this

1443
00:55:27,890 --> 00:55:24,780
problem and they're able to do that to

1444
00:55:30,049 --> 00:55:27,900
travel through time are we at that point

1445
00:55:32,630 --> 00:55:30,059
also kind of breaking through the veil

1446
00:55:35,329 --> 00:55:32,640
are we breaking through the illusion of

1447
00:55:36,829 --> 00:55:35,339
the reality that we think you know that

1448
00:55:39,589 --> 00:55:36,839
we just talked about isn't really real

1449
00:55:42,890 --> 00:55:39,599
but the illusion of space-time so are we

1450
00:55:44,930 --> 00:55:42,900
piercing that uh you know construct in a

1451
00:55:47,870 --> 00:55:44,940
way and then in that in in that

1452
00:55:49,910 --> 00:55:47,880
breakthrough we're we're then at that

1453
00:55:52,790 --> 00:55:49,920
point interacting with aspects of

1454
00:55:56,150 --> 00:55:52,800
reality that we have been at up until

1455
00:55:58,309 --> 00:55:56,160
that point completely blind to right so

1456
00:56:01,190 --> 00:55:58,319
we're interacting with other entities

1457
00:56:04,010 --> 00:56:01,200
that may exist outside of space-time

1458
00:56:07,309 --> 00:56:04,020
that have already similarly cracked that

1459
00:56:09,589 --> 00:56:07,319
kind of time travel uh Modus operand Day

1460
00:56:12,170 --> 00:56:09,599
uh they may have their own technology

1461
00:56:14,510 --> 00:56:12,180
they may have their own uh in advanced

1462
00:56:18,890 --> 00:56:14,520
Consciousness kind of technology that we

1463
00:56:20,450 --> 00:56:18,900
don't have everything kind of becomes uh

1464
00:56:21,670 --> 00:56:20,460
I don't know for whatever reason I think

1465
00:56:25,549 --> 00:56:21,680
of this like

1466
00:56:27,950 --> 00:56:25,559
Galactic Nexus Gathering Place of all

1467
00:56:30,130 --> 00:56:27,960
these different possibilities uh and

1468
00:56:33,650 --> 00:56:30,140
ideas and exchange of information

1469
00:56:36,170 --> 00:56:33,660
uh and it once we can enter into that

1470
00:56:39,230 --> 00:56:36,180
space and and obtain any of those

1471
00:56:41,990 --> 00:56:39,240
different uh Notions that we become

1472
00:56:43,910 --> 00:56:42,000
present to those new realities they

1473
00:56:47,690 --> 00:56:43,920
become a part of us they become a part

1474
00:56:49,970 --> 00:56:47,700
of our human uh descendants and and they

1475
00:56:52,069 --> 00:56:49,980
incorporate those realities into who

1476
00:56:55,010 --> 00:56:52,079
they are and then they're bringing that

1477
00:56:57,770 --> 00:56:55,020
with them as they come back to the time

1478
00:57:01,250 --> 00:56:57,780
that they left or go back further in

1479
00:57:03,710 --> 00:57:01,260
time uh to to their ancestors

1480
00:57:05,870 --> 00:57:03,720
and you can see how just that the any

1481
00:57:07,790 --> 00:57:05,880
interaction at that point like if you

1482
00:57:10,130 --> 00:57:07,800
left today and you left on a time travel

1483
00:57:11,870 --> 00:57:10,140
Mission and came back and interacted

1484
00:57:13,130 --> 00:57:11,880
with me you would have encountered

1485
00:57:15,470 --> 00:57:13,140
things and would be a completely

1486
00:57:18,170 --> 00:57:15,480
different person than the person I know

1487
00:57:20,270 --> 00:57:18,180
you to be now and and if we enter into

1488
00:57:22,010 --> 00:57:20,280
that equation that you might interact

1489
00:57:24,349 --> 00:57:22,020
with beings that exist outside of the

1490
00:57:27,890 --> 00:57:24,359
space-time construct or beings that

1491
00:57:30,290 --> 00:57:27,900
exist in other worlds etc etc you might

1492
00:57:31,970 --> 00:57:30,300
not even look like Darren anymore you

1493
00:57:33,770 --> 00:57:31,980
know you might you might be augmented in

1494
00:57:36,710 --> 00:57:33,780
ways that that would be you know

1495
00:57:38,990 --> 00:57:36,720
completely alien to me and interact with

1496
00:57:41,690 --> 00:57:39,000
me in ways that also are completely

1497
00:57:43,609 --> 00:57:41,700
alien I you may have forgotten how to be

1498
00:57:45,770 --> 00:57:43,619
you know the human Darren that I know

1499
00:57:47,450 --> 00:57:45,780
and maybe somebody uh totally different

1500
00:57:49,849 --> 00:57:47,460
obviously I'm chasing a lot of rabbits

1501
00:57:53,089 --> 00:57:49,859
here but I'm trying to do that because I

1502
00:57:56,270 --> 00:57:53,099
think it illustrates some of the uh

1503
00:57:58,250 --> 00:57:56,280
possibilities that become present once

1504
00:58:01,910 --> 00:57:58,260
you entertain the notion that this is

1505
00:58:04,250 --> 00:58:01,920
this may in fact be real that it does

1506
00:58:05,990 --> 00:58:04,260
then help us look at some of the

1507
00:58:08,150 --> 00:58:06,000
experiences that we've heard about and

1508
00:58:10,670 --> 00:58:08,160
say oh well I mean that this could

1509
00:58:13,609 --> 00:58:10,680
explain those that this could if we if

1510
00:58:16,670 --> 00:58:13,619
we take out the the Sci-Fi right which

1511
00:58:19,430 --> 00:58:16,680
we which is such a big part of and and

1512
00:58:21,829 --> 00:58:19,440
colors and influences so much of how we

1513
00:58:24,530 --> 00:58:21,839
think about ufology if we take out that

1514
00:58:27,230 --> 00:58:24,540
the Sci-Fi elements and just instead

1515
00:58:29,270 --> 00:58:27,240
think about it from the vantage point of

1516
00:58:33,309 --> 00:58:29,280
our the trajectory that we're on right

1517
00:58:37,549 --> 00:58:33,319
now and what may happen once we crack

1518
00:58:39,710 --> 00:58:37,559
this space-time construct entirely then

1519
00:58:42,650 --> 00:58:39,720
everything like starts to look a lot

1520
00:58:44,270 --> 00:58:42,660
closer to home and as you said at the

1521
00:58:47,089 --> 00:58:44,280
beginning just

1522
00:58:50,030 --> 00:58:47,099
you know the signs are there right so

1523
00:58:51,470 --> 00:58:50,040
it's definitely hard to ignore

1524
00:58:53,630 --> 00:58:51,480
like you said there's so many rabbit

1525
00:58:55,910 --> 00:58:53,640
holes to chase here

1526
00:58:59,089 --> 00:58:55,920
let's grab a couple more

1527
00:59:00,950 --> 00:58:59,099
let's think about the common

1528
00:59:02,690 --> 00:59:00,960
ly described

1529
00:59:04,970 --> 00:59:02,700
way that abductions and contact

1530
00:59:07,569 --> 00:59:04,980
experience often happen and let's think

1531
00:59:10,609 --> 00:59:07,579
about them from the perspective of this

1532
00:59:12,170 --> 00:59:10,619
extrateral model

1533
00:59:13,430 --> 00:59:12,180
there are several things about the

1534
00:59:16,370 --> 00:59:13,440
nature of the experiences themselves

1535
00:59:17,990 --> 00:59:16,380
that lend well to this to this model

1536
00:59:20,150 --> 00:59:18,000
one of them being that they can

1537
00:59:22,069 --> 00:59:20,160
communicate with us at all there's one

1538
00:59:24,829 --> 00:59:22,079
point in the book where

1539
00:59:26,870 --> 00:59:24,839
he makes the point that certain insects

1540
00:59:28,130 --> 00:59:26,880
you know like vibrated a certain

1541
00:59:30,470 --> 00:59:28,140
frequency and that's how they

1542
00:59:33,109 --> 00:59:30,480
communicate with each other

1543
00:59:35,089 --> 00:59:33,119
and yet not only do they communicate

1544
00:59:37,069 --> 00:59:35,099
with us but they can communicate with us

1545
00:59:39,230 --> 00:59:37,079
in a way that sounds like English to us

1546
00:59:41,329 --> 00:59:39,240
or Mandarin if we're you know from a

1547
00:59:43,730 --> 00:59:41,339
different background and on top of that

1548
00:59:46,130 --> 00:59:43,740
what's interesting if you think about it

1549
00:59:49,490 --> 00:59:46,140
yes they have telepathic capacities that

1550
00:59:52,849 --> 00:59:49,500
make ours pale in comparison but we

1551
00:59:54,829 --> 00:59:52,859
still have enough of a telepathic root

1552
00:59:56,390 --> 00:59:54,839
that we can actually understand them and

1553
00:59:57,349 --> 00:59:56,400
they can read our thoughts too which

1554
01:00:00,589 --> 00:59:57,359
again

1555
01:00:02,210 --> 01:00:00,599
speaks to perhaps something that is

1556
01:00:05,329 --> 01:00:02,220
innate to all of us and they've just

1557
01:00:09,289 --> 01:00:05,339
learned to augment that capacity either

1558
01:00:11,210 --> 01:00:09,299
through technology or through practice

1559
01:00:12,829 --> 01:00:11,220
over centuries and centuries and

1560
01:00:14,510 --> 01:00:12,839
Millennia they get to the point where

1561
01:00:15,589 --> 01:00:14,520
that becomes their dominant way of

1562
01:00:18,289 --> 01:00:15,599
communicating

1563
01:00:19,970 --> 01:00:18,299
and this also relates to

1564
01:00:24,230 --> 01:00:19,980
on the one hand we hear about them

1565
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:24,240
seeming to be less less I have a more

1566
01:00:27,710 --> 01:00:26,640
narrow range of emotional expression

1567
01:00:30,530 --> 01:00:27,720
right

1568
01:00:32,930 --> 01:00:30,540
if you have learned to communicate

1569
01:00:35,089 --> 01:00:32,940
telepathically you don't need to

1570
01:00:38,210 --> 01:00:35,099
have this wide range of facial

1571
01:00:40,849 --> 01:00:38,220
expressions or tone of voice or body

1572
01:00:43,329 --> 01:00:40,859
language even because I can know exactly

1573
01:00:46,069 --> 01:00:43,339
the fullness of what you're experiencing

1574
01:00:49,130 --> 01:00:46,079
directly why would I need all these

1575
01:00:52,010 --> 01:00:49,140
other kind of cumbersome ways of only

1576
01:00:53,569 --> 01:00:52,020
ever giving a vague impression really of

1577
01:00:55,730 --> 01:00:53,579
what's going on for Nathan but if I can

1578
01:00:57,770 --> 01:00:55,740
read right from Nathan's source code so

1579
01:00:59,750 --> 01:00:57,780
to speak then I have a complete

1580
01:01:03,470 --> 01:00:59,760
understanding and you can see how then

1581
01:01:05,030 --> 01:01:03,480
once that became into the four then you

1582
01:01:07,609 --> 01:01:05,040
would slowly have this Evolution away

1583
01:01:09,049 --> 01:01:07,619
from the ability to use facial

1584
01:01:11,329 --> 01:01:09,059
expression to the same degree and those

1585
01:01:15,289 --> 01:01:11,339
kind of things and you would have an

1586
01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:15,299
atrophy kind of a development around

1587
01:01:19,130 --> 01:01:17,280
vocal cords and things like that right

1588
01:01:21,049 --> 01:01:19,140
and we do see this this thing when we

1589
01:01:22,910 --> 01:01:21,059
think about it right they have

1590
01:01:24,890 --> 01:01:22,920
much smaller mouths almost like they're

1591
01:01:27,109 --> 01:01:24,900
barely a slit for a mouth that's almost

1592
01:01:29,210 --> 01:01:27,119
like the evidence that we see in The

1593
01:01:32,569 --> 01:01:29,220
evolutionary chain where sometimes we

1594
01:01:36,230 --> 01:01:32,579
see these in between kind of

1595
01:01:38,750 --> 01:01:36,240
creatures that seem to have a left over

1596
01:01:40,609 --> 01:01:38,760
version of some sort of feature that was

1597
01:01:42,410 --> 01:01:40,619
useful in the past but really they're on

1598
01:01:44,210 --> 01:01:42,420
their way to a new form and that that

1599
01:01:45,530 --> 01:01:44,220
that one feature is not really helpful

1600
01:01:47,270 --> 01:01:45,540
anymore it just seems to be hanging

1601
01:01:48,890 --> 01:01:47,280
around not doing much of anything you

1602
01:01:51,530 --> 01:01:48,900
could argue that the mouth is something

1603
01:01:53,510 --> 01:01:51,540
like that for a gray alien that perhaps

1604
01:01:55,609 --> 01:01:53,520
they still use it but it's a much narrow

1605
01:01:57,470 --> 01:01:55,619
range of uses than what we have when we

1606
01:02:00,109 --> 01:01:57,480
have to use it to communicate vocally

1607
01:02:03,770 --> 01:02:00,119
and to consume food there's a lot of

1608
01:02:06,049 --> 01:02:03,780
talk about them either consuming liquids

1609
01:02:08,030 --> 01:02:06,059
to get their nutrition which again you

1610
01:02:10,730 --> 01:02:08,040
wouldn't have to have teeth structure

1611
01:02:12,109 --> 01:02:10,740
right to chew up things and sometimes

1612
01:02:14,630 --> 01:02:12,119
there's even Notions in the literature

1613
01:02:16,549 --> 01:02:14,640
that they can basically apply this kind

1614
01:02:17,990 --> 01:02:16,559
of liquid or cream to their bodies and

1615
01:02:20,150 --> 01:02:18,000
just like absorb it through their skin

1616
01:02:22,250 --> 01:02:20,160
directly which again if you think about

1617
01:02:24,410 --> 01:02:22,260
it that's a possible evolutionary Trend

1618
01:02:27,530 --> 01:02:24,420
that we might eventually adopt as a way

1619
01:02:30,230 --> 01:02:27,540
to sort of take in nutrition

1620
01:02:32,690 --> 01:02:30,240
so again when you start thinking about

1621
01:02:34,730 --> 01:02:32,700
these things it makes a lot of sense of

1622
01:02:36,589 --> 01:02:34,740
course another huge one is the

1623
01:02:39,109 --> 01:02:36,599
hybridization program

1624
01:02:41,690 --> 01:02:39,119
this is a really compelling data point

1625
01:02:44,150 --> 01:02:41,700
because we know that we can't just go

1626
01:02:45,349 --> 01:02:44,160
and say hey be cool to like mix a frog

1627
01:02:47,089 --> 01:02:45,359
and a chicken

1628
01:02:49,370 --> 01:02:47,099
now let's make them mate and see what we

1629
01:02:52,370 --> 01:02:49,380
end up with

1630
01:02:54,829 --> 01:02:52,380
now you could argue that once you have a

1631
01:02:55,970 --> 01:02:54,839
an alien species that has reached a

1632
01:02:57,770 --> 01:02:55,980
certain kind of

1633
01:03:00,410 --> 01:02:57,780
technological development that perhaps

1634
01:03:02,150 --> 01:03:00,420
they could cause these mutations and mix

1635
01:03:05,030 --> 01:03:02,160
together Gene pools

1636
01:03:06,950 --> 01:03:05,040
that's possible but often in the

1637
01:03:09,289 --> 01:03:06,960
literature it's not just these kind of

1638
01:03:12,170 --> 01:03:09,299
test tube genetic experiments but

1639
01:03:15,349 --> 01:03:12,180
actually full-on mating sessions where a

1640
01:03:17,990 --> 01:03:15,359
human being is asked to mate with some

1641
01:03:20,030 --> 01:03:18,000
sort of other humanoid kind of being

1642
01:03:22,309 --> 01:03:20,040
and again you just can't do that with a

1643
01:03:23,750 --> 01:03:22,319
frog and a chicken you can only do it

1644
01:03:25,730 --> 01:03:23,760
with species as far as we understand

1645
01:03:27,950 --> 01:03:25,740
that have some sort of common lineage

1646
01:03:30,170 --> 01:03:27,960
that the genetic codes can kind of line

1647
01:03:33,170 --> 01:03:30,180
up so that alone speaks to the fact that

1648
01:03:35,770 --> 01:03:33,180
they must be related to us in some way

1649
01:03:38,450 --> 01:03:35,780
we also have Notions like

1650
01:03:39,890 --> 01:03:38,460
their lack of emotional range they

1651
01:03:41,809 --> 01:03:39,900
sometimes suggest according to

1652
01:03:43,549 --> 01:03:41,819
literature is something that they

1653
01:03:45,670 --> 01:03:43,559
decided basically as we before we talked

1654
01:03:48,109 --> 01:03:45,680
about bioengineering our own future

1655
01:03:49,849 --> 01:03:48,119
there's discussion from them that that

1656
01:03:51,289 --> 01:03:49,859
was a conscious decision because they

1657
01:03:53,569 --> 01:03:51,299
saw that

1658
01:03:55,849 --> 01:03:53,579
a lot of the problems that Human Society

1659
01:03:58,370 --> 01:03:55,859
created was because of our

1660
01:03:59,870 --> 01:03:58,380
volatile emotional nature

1661
01:04:01,609 --> 01:03:59,880
and so they made a decision at some

1662
01:04:03,170 --> 01:04:01,619
point to become more spock-like more

1663
01:04:04,430 --> 01:04:03,180
like Vulcans try to make decisions

1664
01:04:07,069 --> 01:04:04,440
logically

1665
01:04:08,809 --> 01:04:07,079
but to the point where they perhaps even

1666
01:04:10,190 --> 01:04:08,819
regretted how far that went and they

1667
01:04:12,710 --> 01:04:10,200
felt like they had lost something in the

1668
01:04:15,650 --> 01:04:12,720
process and so part of the hybridization

1669
01:04:18,410 --> 01:04:15,660
program is not just to help us but to

1670
01:04:20,210 --> 01:04:18,420
also help them to create perhaps a a new

1671
01:04:22,370 --> 01:04:20,220
type of being that takes the best of

1672
01:04:24,410 --> 01:04:22,380
what they consider them to be and the

1673
01:04:26,630 --> 01:04:24,420
best of what we are and actually create

1674
01:04:28,130 --> 01:04:26,640
a third option that almost creates a new

1675
01:04:29,930 --> 01:04:28,140
timeline in a way if you think about it

1676
01:04:32,089 --> 01:04:29,940
because it creates a new possibility

1677
01:04:34,130 --> 01:04:32,099
that had never happened naturally what

1678
01:04:37,910 --> 01:04:34,140
do you think about that

1679
01:04:40,970 --> 01:04:37,920
well I am reminded of what Lou Elizondo

1680
01:04:43,370 --> 01:04:40,980
said you know not about Mankind's right

1681
01:04:47,150 --> 01:04:43,380
that they're it's a different way of of

1682
01:04:48,349 --> 01:04:47,160
you know revisiting that quote

1683
01:04:50,690 --> 01:04:48,359
um

1684
01:04:53,210 --> 01:04:50,700
I also think about

1685
01:04:56,450 --> 01:04:53,220
the complexity of of sharing this

1686
01:04:58,069 --> 01:04:56,460
information with the public right so if

1687
01:05:01,849 --> 01:04:58,079
you're if you're the government and

1688
01:05:03,589 --> 01:05:01,859
you've stumbled upon this reality

1689
01:05:06,589 --> 01:05:03,599
um

1690
01:05:10,130 --> 01:05:06,599
through various means where do you begin

1691
01:05:12,950 --> 01:05:10,140
you know explaining this to people uh

1692
01:05:14,450 --> 01:05:12,960
in how many questions would follow right

1693
01:05:16,309 --> 01:05:14,460
well you see in the future what does it

1694
01:05:18,770 --> 01:05:16,319
look like well that it's complicated

1695
01:05:20,390 --> 01:05:18,780
we've seen the past what did you do to

1696
01:05:22,670 --> 01:05:20,400
it well I don't want to I don't want to

1697
01:05:26,089 --> 01:05:22,680
share that because it's you know it's

1698
01:05:31,130 --> 01:05:26,099
messy uh you know you can see how this

1699
01:05:33,289 --> 01:05:31,140
would be a lot more complex than just oh

1700
01:05:36,770 --> 01:05:33,299
you know some beings from

1701
01:05:38,870 --> 01:05:36,780
uh you know Kepler whenever it is you

1702
01:05:41,569 --> 01:05:38,880
know landed here and and and they

1703
01:05:43,370 --> 01:05:41,579
visited us like that is way simpler like

1704
01:05:45,230 --> 01:05:43,380
we actually had procedures already that

1705
01:05:47,089 --> 01:05:45,240
could basically handle you know the

1706
01:05:51,049 --> 01:05:47,099
immigration forms for that

1707
01:05:53,089 --> 01:05:51,059
um but for uh dealing with time travel I

1708
01:05:55,069 --> 01:05:53,099
mean wow uh I don't think we're very

1709
01:05:57,710 --> 01:05:55,079
well equipped for that conversation and

1710
01:05:59,930 --> 01:05:57,720
it could explain in many ways the the

1711
01:06:02,569 --> 01:05:59,940
layers and layers of secrecy that we

1712
01:06:04,870 --> 01:06:02,579
have seen around this topic just uh

1713
01:06:07,549 --> 01:06:04,880
because you could only imagine as we

1714
01:06:09,589 --> 01:06:07,559
became aware of this possibility and all

1715
01:06:12,349 --> 01:06:09,599
the different uh beings that we were

1716
01:06:15,890 --> 01:06:12,359
interacting with of our own lineage and

1717
01:06:18,230 --> 01:06:15,900
others that the the picture becomes

1718
01:06:21,530 --> 01:06:18,240
incredibly complex and difficult to

1719
01:06:23,809 --> 01:06:21,540
translate to an audience in in just like

1720
01:06:26,270 --> 01:06:23,819
a simple presidential address for

1721
01:06:29,270 --> 01:06:26,280
example uh or a proclamation I mean you

1722
01:06:32,329 --> 01:06:29,280
can't I mean it arguably it's taken us

1723
01:06:34,490 --> 01:06:32,339
Decades of analyzing this and thinking

1724
01:06:37,970 --> 01:06:34,500
through it and Etc to even come to the

1725
01:06:40,490 --> 01:06:37,980
place we are now where where the secrets

1726
01:06:42,950 --> 01:06:40,500
that themselves are spilling out

1727
01:06:46,069 --> 01:06:42,960
um and and hopefully that digestive

1728
01:06:48,289 --> 01:06:46,079
process has been sufficient enough for

1729
01:06:51,589 --> 01:06:48,299
us to get the nutrients uh you know out

1730
01:06:54,710 --> 01:06:51,599
of it and uh and to be productive so I

1731
01:06:57,289 --> 01:06:54,720
don't know it's uh it's a lot it's a lot

1732
01:06:59,510 --> 01:06:57,299
to wrestle with there for sure

1733
01:07:01,549 --> 01:06:59,520
it is and when you raise that point I

1734
01:07:02,750 --> 01:07:01,559
was thinking about what John Ramirez has

1735
01:07:05,569 --> 01:07:02,760
said about this

1736
01:07:08,089 --> 01:07:05,579
in speaking about the Roswell event he

1737
01:07:09,529 --> 01:07:08,099
has made claims that from his point of

1738
01:07:12,289 --> 01:07:09,539
view exactly fits with what you're

1739
01:07:14,870 --> 01:07:12,299
saying that if these were just

1740
01:07:17,029 --> 01:07:14,880
beings that were recovered that seem to

1741
01:07:19,370 --> 01:07:17,039
be you know have flown here from Zeta

1742
01:07:21,410 --> 01:07:19,380
reticuli or Andromeda or whatever it

1743
01:07:23,450 --> 01:07:21,420
wouldn't be such a big deal and perhaps

1744
01:07:25,730 --> 01:07:23,460
the public could handle that but

1745
01:07:28,010 --> 01:07:25,740
according to his narrative what was

1746
01:07:30,650 --> 01:07:28,020
discovered was that these beings had

1747
01:07:33,950 --> 01:07:30,660
some sort of genetic linkage with us the

1748
01:07:36,529 --> 01:07:33,960
DNA would had some common factors to it

1749
01:07:39,049 --> 01:07:36,539
and it was decided that to your point

1750
01:07:40,609 --> 01:07:39,059
that that was a secret that was too

1751
01:07:42,410 --> 01:07:40,619
dangerous to share with the public too

1752
01:07:44,690 --> 01:07:42,420
dangerous in terms of it being too

1753
01:07:46,069 --> 01:07:44,700
potentially destabilizing to our

1754
01:07:48,170 --> 01:07:46,079
civilization

1755
01:07:50,210 --> 01:07:48,180
to have to reckon with this notion that

1756
01:07:51,890 --> 01:07:50,220
there was this connection

1757
01:07:53,150 --> 01:07:51,900
now to something you mentioned earlier I

1758
01:07:54,890 --> 01:07:53,160
just really want to hit on this because

1759
01:07:57,470 --> 01:07:54,900
I think it is important to point to

1760
01:08:00,710 --> 01:07:57,480
people that there is another possibility

1761
01:08:03,710 --> 01:08:00,720
here and that is that as you said

1762
01:08:05,270 --> 01:08:03,720
this ancient seating program this notion

1763
01:08:08,210 --> 01:08:05,280
that perhaps

1764
01:08:09,589 --> 01:08:08,220
an alien intelligence that predated all

1765
01:08:12,349 --> 01:08:09,599
of the forms we've talked about that

1766
01:08:15,230 --> 01:08:12,359
maybe have long since moved on

1767
01:08:19,070 --> 01:08:15,240
actually seated various planets in the

1768
01:08:20,749 --> 01:08:19,080
Milky Way say with a common humanoid

1769
01:08:23,269 --> 01:08:20,759
form because for whatever reason that

1770
01:08:26,030 --> 01:08:23,279
had been experiment experimented with

1771
01:08:28,130 --> 01:08:26,040
and found to be a really useful form and

1772
01:08:30,289 --> 01:08:28,140
so they had basically set up the

1773
01:08:33,169 --> 01:08:30,299
precursors for the development of that

1774
01:08:35,209 --> 01:08:33,179
kind of being on various planets and

1775
01:08:37,550 --> 01:08:35,219
that could explain how for instance the

1776
01:08:40,849 --> 01:08:37,560
beings recovered at Roswell might not

1777
01:08:43,249 --> 01:08:40,859
just be future time traveling humans but

1778
01:08:44,329 --> 01:08:43,259
could also be an example of one of these

1779
01:08:47,329 --> 01:08:44,339
other

1780
01:08:48,829 --> 01:08:47,339
similar templated beings that actually

1781
01:08:50,450 --> 01:08:48,839
arose on a different planet so that's

1782
01:08:52,490 --> 01:08:50,460
that's a possibility

1783
01:08:55,249 --> 01:08:52,500
there's another possibility called

1784
01:08:58,130 --> 01:08:55,259
convergent evolution the notion there is

1785
01:09:00,829 --> 01:08:58,140
that from my understanding

1786
01:09:03,650 --> 01:09:00,839
what suggested there is that at the

1787
01:09:06,289 --> 01:09:03,660
higher upper chain of the food chain

1788
01:09:11,390 --> 01:09:06,299
the higher forms there are fewer and

1789
01:09:13,370 --> 01:09:11,400
fewer ideal optimal kind of forms and

1790
01:09:14,990 --> 01:09:13,380
that perhaps the humanoid form is one of

1791
01:09:17,269 --> 01:09:15,000
those and according to that theory

1792
01:09:19,610 --> 01:09:17,279
therefore you would eventually have even

1793
01:09:20,990 --> 01:09:19,620
if you had very different Beginnings at

1794
01:09:22,729 --> 01:09:21,000
the top of the food chain you would see

1795
01:09:25,550 --> 01:09:22,739
this convergence towards the humanoid

1796
01:09:28,490 --> 01:09:25,560
form that has been suggested

1797
01:09:31,189 --> 01:09:28,500
I am not an evolutionary biologist like

1798
01:09:33,349 --> 01:09:31,199
Mike is and so I lean on his expertise

1799
01:09:36,470 --> 01:09:33,359
in saying that that while that is a

1800
01:09:38,030 --> 01:09:36,480
possibility that's much less likely

1801
01:09:39,650 --> 01:09:38,040
and in terms of the cosmic seating

1802
01:09:40,910 --> 01:09:39,660
program I think it's very much a

1803
01:09:42,890 --> 01:09:40,920
possibility

1804
01:09:44,510 --> 01:09:42,900
again according to the narrative there

1805
01:09:46,610 --> 01:09:44,520
were some distinct differences between

1806
01:09:47,689 --> 01:09:46,620
these Graves that were recovered or

1807
01:09:50,030 --> 01:09:47,699
these beings that were recovered at

1808
01:09:51,110 --> 01:09:50,040
Roswell they had some organs that were

1809
01:09:52,849 --> 01:09:51,120
different than ours and in different

1810
01:09:54,650 --> 01:09:52,859
places

1811
01:09:56,630 --> 01:09:54,660
you know when the autopsy was done but

1812
01:09:58,370 --> 01:09:56,640
again there was this distinct notion

1813
01:10:01,370 --> 01:09:58,380
that they did have some DNA in common

1814
01:10:04,250 --> 01:10:01,380
with us and this indeed was why

1815
01:10:06,110 --> 01:10:04,260
the secret was not shared and was locked

1816
01:10:08,810 --> 01:10:06,120
up for decades because suddenly like you

1817
01:10:10,910 --> 01:10:08,820
said the implications become much more

1818
01:10:13,610 --> 01:10:10,920
drastic because if if it's true that

1819
01:10:14,930 --> 01:10:13,620
time travel exists then you begin to

1820
01:10:17,030 --> 01:10:14,940
wonder about all sorts of things and

1821
01:10:18,830 --> 01:10:17,040
like you said earlier you hinted at what

1822
01:10:21,830 --> 01:10:18,840
are the rules are there rules is there

1823
01:10:25,370 --> 01:10:21,840
some sort of you know agency of uh

1824
01:10:26,689 --> 01:10:25,380
temporal uh Affairs in the future that

1825
01:10:28,970 --> 01:10:26,699
actually you have to follow form and say

1826
01:10:31,790 --> 01:10:28,980
I'd like to go back to 1956 and I want

1827
01:10:33,050 --> 01:10:31,800
to do this what what what uh steps are

1828
01:10:34,610 --> 01:10:33,060
you going to take to not interfere with

1829
01:10:37,250 --> 01:10:34,620
the timeline well I plan to do this okay

1830
01:10:39,410 --> 01:10:37,260
it's been approved or rejected and to

1831
01:10:41,450 --> 01:10:39,420
that point

1832
01:10:44,030 --> 01:10:41,460
this is one of the the points is put

1833
01:10:46,610 --> 01:10:44,040
forward is that why don't these aliens

1834
01:10:48,229 --> 01:10:46,620
land on the White House lawn right

1835
01:10:50,030 --> 01:10:48,239
well perhaps it's because they're

1836
01:10:51,649 --> 01:10:50,040
actually not aliens in the in the

1837
01:10:54,410 --> 01:10:51,659
original sense but they actually are us

1838
01:10:57,110 --> 01:10:54,420
from the future and their clandestine

1839
01:10:58,850 --> 01:10:57,120
activities speak to the fact that they

1840
01:11:01,370 --> 01:10:58,860
don't want to give away especially on a

1841
01:11:02,930 --> 01:11:01,380
mass level who they actually are and how

1842
01:11:05,330 --> 01:11:02,940
they got here meaning being time

1843
01:11:07,310 --> 01:11:05,340
traveling future humans because that

1844
01:11:10,370 --> 01:11:07,320
would significantly change the timeline

1845
01:11:12,709 --> 01:11:10,380
and perhaps even impact their future so

1846
01:11:14,330 --> 01:11:12,719
perhaps their activities speak to the

1847
01:11:17,149 --> 01:11:14,340
notion that they actually are following

1848
01:11:18,950 --> 01:11:17,159
a rule set of rules that allow for

1849
01:11:21,290 --> 01:11:18,960
interaction and even some tweaking

1850
01:11:22,850 --> 01:11:21,300
without fundamentally changing the

1851
01:11:25,250 --> 01:11:22,860
timeline in such consequential

1852
01:11:27,530 --> 01:11:25,260
consequential ways that impacts their

1853
01:11:28,550 --> 01:11:27,540
very existence in the future

1854
01:11:30,830 --> 01:11:28,560
um

1855
01:11:32,689 --> 01:11:30,840
right and and it also might help explain

1856
01:11:36,110 --> 01:11:32,699
the competing factions that we've heard

1857
01:11:37,850 --> 01:11:36,120
about right so you have some humans that

1858
01:11:40,750 --> 01:11:37,860
might be nearer to us in the

1859
01:11:44,689 --> 01:11:40,760
evolutionary chain that initially

1860
01:11:48,410 --> 01:11:44,699
cracked this ability and

1861
01:11:52,310 --> 01:11:48,420
you know they're maybe more Pro Homo

1862
01:11:56,030 --> 01:11:52,320
sapiens sapien but their uh progeny in

1863
01:11:57,890 --> 01:11:56,040
many many generations after them uh you

1864
01:11:59,390 --> 01:11:57,900
know makes further advances and then

1865
01:12:04,729 --> 01:11:59,400
they come back and have a different

1866
01:12:06,590 --> 01:12:04,739
agenda at play for for their ancestors

1867
01:12:08,270 --> 01:12:06,600
um yeah you can see how there could be

1868
01:12:10,610 --> 01:12:08,280
some real competing factions at work

1869
01:12:14,149 --> 01:12:10,620
there not just from those different

1870
01:12:16,490 --> 01:12:14,159
kinds of entities but also competing uh

1871
01:12:18,169 --> 01:12:16,500
with the the state powers of the day

1872
01:12:20,270 --> 01:12:18,179
because we've also heard that that there

1873
01:12:22,310 --> 01:12:20,280
are some groups that work you know

1874
01:12:25,850 --> 01:12:22,320
closely with the US and some that work

1875
01:12:28,370 --> 01:12:25,860
closely with Russia or China Etc maybe

1876
01:12:31,550 --> 01:12:28,380
they are descendants of different you

1877
01:12:34,729 --> 01:12:31,560
know sort of populations on the earth uh

1878
01:12:38,330 --> 01:12:34,739
I do wonder what a revelation like this

1879
01:12:40,130 --> 01:12:38,340
might mean for modern day people uh

1880
01:12:43,270 --> 01:12:40,140
whether this would be something that

1881
01:12:46,250 --> 01:12:43,280
would uh serve as that

1882
01:12:47,990 --> 01:12:46,260
galvanizing moment to help unite us as a

1883
01:12:50,649 --> 01:12:48,000
species or whether it might actually

1884
01:12:52,209 --> 01:12:50,659
further inflame some of the already

1885
01:12:55,490 --> 01:12:52,219
existing

1886
01:12:58,610 --> 01:12:55,500
tribalistic tendencies that we have we

1887
01:13:00,830 --> 01:12:58,620
tend to be very focused on rooting for

1888
01:13:04,070 --> 01:13:00,840
our own home team and if it comes out

1889
01:13:06,290 --> 01:13:04,080
that this time traveling species is a

1890
01:13:08,330 --> 01:13:06,300
descendant from you know over here and

1891
01:13:10,490 --> 01:13:08,340
not over there but we don't want to

1892
01:13:12,350 --> 01:13:10,500
interact with them we're gonna you know

1893
01:13:14,270 --> 01:13:12,360
kind of continue to dump money into our

1894
01:13:17,830 --> 01:13:14,280
technological advancement at the expense

1895
01:13:20,930 --> 01:13:17,840
of everyone else and our our competitive

1896
01:13:24,470 --> 01:13:20,940
nature only kind of gets stoked further

1897
01:13:27,290 --> 01:13:24,480
and our tensions only increase so that

1898
01:13:28,250 --> 01:13:27,300
that is a little bit concerning to me

1899
01:13:30,110 --> 01:13:28,260
um

1900
01:13:31,850 --> 01:13:30,120
but you know on the positive side hey

1901
01:13:34,010 --> 01:13:31,860
it'd be cool to time travel right like

1902
01:13:36,649 --> 01:13:34,020
hop in the DeLorean you know go back and

1903
01:13:38,570 --> 01:13:36,659
uh you know see what the 1950s were like

1904
01:13:40,010 --> 01:13:38,580
or something absolutely you think about

1905
01:13:41,750 --> 01:13:40,020
being an archaeologist or an

1906
01:13:43,490 --> 01:13:41,760
anthropologist and say

1907
01:13:45,110 --> 01:13:43,500
wow it's wild to think that there was a

1908
01:13:47,390 --> 01:13:45,120
time where they had to like dig into the

1909
01:13:48,830 --> 01:13:47,400
ground and try and find fossils rather

1910
01:13:51,950 --> 01:13:48,840
than what we do now which is we just go

1911
01:13:53,689 --> 01:13:51,960
back to the Egyptian period and observe

1912
01:13:56,090 --> 01:13:53,699
the building of the prayers to pyramids

1913
01:13:57,590 --> 01:13:56,100
directly right or something like that

1914
01:14:00,229 --> 01:13:57,600
you know another another piece that

1915
01:14:01,610 --> 01:14:00,239
occurs to me that is enticing in terms

1916
01:14:04,130 --> 01:14:01,620
of a possibility

1917
01:14:06,050 --> 01:14:04,140
is in helping to explain some of the

1918
01:14:08,510 --> 01:14:06,060
strange aspects of the historical

1919
01:14:10,430 --> 01:14:08,520
literature that seemed disjointed it

1920
01:14:12,890 --> 01:14:10,440
seems hard to fit them into our our

1921
01:14:15,950 --> 01:14:12,900
present reality for instance my labs

1922
01:14:19,490 --> 01:14:15,960
right this sense that these strange

1923
01:14:21,110 --> 01:14:19,500
seemingly military-oriented Endeavors

1924
01:14:23,990 --> 01:14:21,120
that

1925
01:14:25,610 --> 01:14:24,000
on the one hand people really recount

1926
01:14:27,290 --> 01:14:25,620
having these experiences they seem

1927
01:14:29,450 --> 01:14:27,300
absolutely real to them these are

1928
01:14:32,330 --> 01:14:29,460
credible people who don't tend to make

1929
01:14:33,770 --> 01:14:32,340
things up these are memories they have

1930
01:14:36,169 --> 01:14:33,780
and they seem to involve human

1931
01:14:38,330 --> 01:14:36,179
governments at the same time when people

1932
01:14:40,790 --> 01:14:38,340
look into this possibility it seems like

1933
01:14:42,470 --> 01:14:40,800
sometimes a bit of a stretch based on

1934
01:14:44,270 --> 01:14:42,480
the current configuration of our

1935
01:14:46,130 --> 01:14:44,280
military and our governments

1936
01:14:49,610 --> 01:14:46,140
but if you bring the time travel piece

1937
01:14:51,950 --> 01:14:49,620
in then they could so these particular

1938
01:14:55,729 --> 01:14:51,960
experiencers contact these abductees

1939
01:14:58,390 --> 01:14:55,739
might be experiencing a configuration of

1940
01:15:01,130 --> 01:14:58,400
military government

1941
01:15:03,709 --> 01:15:01,140
and supposed alien groups that are

1942
01:15:05,630 --> 01:15:03,719
actually just again a version of the

1943
01:15:07,010 --> 01:15:05,640
Earth from the future where you have

1944
01:15:09,649 --> 01:15:07,020
different forms that have joined

1945
01:15:12,410 --> 01:15:09,659
together and that it is sometimes is a

1946
01:15:15,229 --> 01:15:12,420
state operated program like a my labs

1947
01:15:17,870 --> 01:15:15,239
but but a a future version of my labs

1948
01:15:19,310 --> 01:15:17,880
interacting with our reality because for

1949
01:15:22,669 --> 01:15:19,320
instance even when it comes to some of

1950
01:15:25,669 --> 01:15:22,679
these massive underground installations

1951
01:15:28,729 --> 01:15:25,679
that people report visiting

1952
01:15:30,530 --> 01:15:28,739
we even think about people like Anjali

1953
01:15:32,870 --> 01:15:30,540
that talk about going into a mountain

1954
01:15:34,310 --> 01:15:32,880
encountering what seems like an alien

1955
01:15:36,590 --> 01:15:34,320
base in there

1956
01:15:38,570 --> 01:15:36,600
now is it are the only possibilities

1957
01:15:40,430 --> 01:15:38,580
that either it's there or she's making

1958
01:15:43,790 --> 01:15:40,440
it up or it's there in a different

1959
01:15:46,970 --> 01:15:43,800
dimension not necessarily if if time is

1960
01:15:49,490 --> 01:15:46,980
malleable then perhaps she was taken

1961
01:15:50,990 --> 01:15:49,500
into a version of that mountain in the

1962
01:15:53,450 --> 01:15:51,000
future right or at least what would

1963
01:15:55,490 --> 01:15:53,460
appear to us like the future so it opens

1964
01:15:57,890 --> 01:15:55,500
up many many possibilities that some of

1965
01:16:00,709 --> 01:15:57,900
the really strange disjointed elements

1966
01:16:03,709 --> 01:16:00,719
of the UFO UFO phenomenal literature

1967
01:16:06,050 --> 01:16:03,719
could fit in once you add the time

1968
01:16:08,930 --> 01:16:06,060
travel piece in there and like you said

1969
01:16:11,390 --> 01:16:08,940
even the Myriad types and forms we see

1970
01:16:14,810 --> 01:16:11,400
may actually just be different versions

1971
01:16:17,090 --> 01:16:14,820
of the human experiment over time

1972
01:16:19,970 --> 01:16:17,100
right you could have the reptilians the

1973
01:16:22,729 --> 01:16:19,980
mantids the Grays and the ones that look

1974
01:16:25,490 --> 01:16:22,739
more human like us perhaps they're like

1975
01:16:26,630 --> 01:16:25,500
you say they're closer in time than the

1976
01:16:29,390 --> 01:16:26,640
ones that really look quite different

1977
01:16:33,530 --> 01:16:29,400
and again based on our history even now

1978
01:16:36,050 --> 01:16:33,540
we hear about us trying to solve certain

1979
01:16:37,250 --> 01:16:36,060
medical issues by bringing in genes from

1980
01:16:39,350 --> 01:16:37,260
other animals

1981
01:16:41,990 --> 01:16:39,360
right this is happening already

1982
01:16:44,410 --> 01:16:42,000
this this notion of

1983
01:16:47,630 --> 01:16:44,420
changing our genome

1984
01:16:49,370 --> 01:16:47,640
technologically impacting it crafting it

1985
01:16:51,229 --> 01:16:49,380
in certain directions this is something

1986
01:16:53,689 --> 01:16:51,239
we're already just beginning to reckon

1987
01:16:55,130 --> 01:16:53,699
with and again I want to remind people

1988
01:16:58,610 --> 01:16:55,140
Wright brothers

1989
01:17:00,890 --> 01:16:58,620
to landing on the moon 66 years what is

1990
01:17:03,830 --> 01:17:00,900
biological manipulation going to look

1991
01:17:06,350 --> 01:17:03,840
like a hundred years from now it's it's

1992
01:17:09,050 --> 01:17:06,360
that alone boggles the mind so we're

1993
01:17:10,729 --> 01:17:09,060
already seeing all of these elements in

1994
01:17:13,010 --> 01:17:10,739
their

1995
01:17:15,290 --> 01:17:13,020
you know early stages so imagine what it

1996
01:17:16,910 --> 01:17:15,300
would look like in the future

1997
01:17:19,370 --> 01:17:16,920
maybe what we can do for the last part

1998
01:17:23,030 --> 01:17:19,380
here is sort of Riff on

1999
01:17:24,590 --> 01:17:23,040
the other hypotheses and how they play

2000
01:17:26,390 --> 01:17:24,600
with this how well do they play with

2001
01:17:29,450 --> 01:17:26,400
this I think the first thing I want to

2002
01:17:31,550 --> 01:17:29,460
say again for those who are saying wow

2003
01:17:33,830 --> 01:17:31,560
Darren is saying that there are no

2004
01:17:36,169 --> 01:17:33,840
aliens really there's just humans across

2005
01:17:38,030 --> 01:17:36,179
time that take different shapes I'm not

2006
01:17:40,610 --> 01:17:38,040
saying that I'm saying that I still

2007
01:17:42,530 --> 01:17:40,620
think the evidence suggests there are

2008
01:17:44,870 --> 01:17:42,540
beings in the universe that have no

2009
01:17:47,030 --> 01:17:44,880
connection to the human genome

2010
01:17:48,709 --> 01:17:47,040
but that there's particular kinds of

2011
01:17:51,350 --> 01:17:48,719
encounters that involve a certain form

2012
01:17:53,330 --> 01:17:51,360
like the Grays and whatnot and involve

2013
01:17:55,550 --> 01:17:53,340
hybridization programs and that kind of

2014
01:17:57,590 --> 01:17:55,560
thing and this notion of being concerned

2015
01:17:59,330 --> 01:17:57,600
about nuclear weapons right we hear

2016
01:18:02,090 --> 01:17:59,340
about this a lot concerns about what

2017
01:18:05,209 --> 01:18:02,100
we're doing to the planet of course a

2018
01:18:07,490 --> 01:18:05,219
benevolent extraterrestrial being our

2019
01:18:10,310 --> 01:18:07,500
civilization may very well be interested

2020
01:18:12,169 --> 01:18:10,320
in that but it's much less of a leap to

2021
01:18:15,410 --> 01:18:12,179
realize that a future human population

2022
01:18:17,270 --> 01:18:15,420
that is experiencing the consequences of

2023
01:18:18,709 --> 01:18:17,280
the decisions we're making in terms of

2024
01:18:20,630 --> 01:18:18,719
our endeavors on the planet right now

2025
01:18:23,030 --> 01:18:20,640
would have the most skin in the game

2026
01:18:25,850 --> 01:18:23,040
they would be coming back and saying

2027
01:18:28,550 --> 01:18:25,860
what are you doing you can't do this why

2028
01:18:31,010 --> 01:18:28,560
are they showing up in UFOs and

2029
01:18:33,890 --> 01:18:31,020
practicing shutting down nuclear silos

2030
01:18:35,930 --> 01:18:33,900
perhaps because it's us from the future

2031
01:18:37,669 --> 01:18:35,940
already perhaps knowing about some sort

2032
01:18:39,590 --> 01:18:37,679
of cataclysm that happens

2033
01:18:41,149 --> 01:18:39,600
and they are actually testing going back

2034
01:18:43,370 --> 01:18:41,159
and tweaking with the timeline to

2035
01:18:45,709 --> 01:18:43,380
prevent that cataclysm because it did

2036
01:18:47,090 --> 01:18:45,719
produce such a a negative result which

2037
01:18:49,130 --> 01:18:47,100
speaking to the point you made earlier

2038
01:18:50,990 --> 01:18:49,140
in terms of the two factions that Ross

2039
01:18:52,910 --> 01:18:51,000
cool tart has talked about

2040
01:18:55,310 --> 01:18:52,920
and then I covered in three episodes on

2041
01:18:57,050 --> 01:18:55,320
point of convergence last year

2042
01:18:59,510 --> 01:18:57,060
if you think about it on the one hand

2043
01:19:01,790 --> 01:18:59,520
the one faction the notion is there they

2044
01:19:02,870 --> 01:19:01,800
want to stop it because maybe they are

2045
01:19:05,209 --> 01:19:02,880
the most

2046
01:19:06,890 --> 01:19:05,219
Forward Thinking in their perspective

2047
01:19:08,990 --> 01:19:06,900
and they recognize that in a big picture

2048
01:19:10,430 --> 01:19:09,000
of the biosphere this was a bad thing

2049
01:19:12,830 --> 01:19:10,440
that happened and sometime in our near

2050
01:19:15,110 --> 01:19:12,840
future a nuclear apocalypse or something

2051
01:19:16,790 --> 01:19:15,120
like that which has so many negative

2052
01:19:18,410 --> 01:19:16,800
consequences so they're trying to help

2053
01:19:20,570 --> 01:19:18,420
us prevent it but you have another

2054
01:19:22,370 --> 01:19:20,580
faction that says wait a second

2055
01:19:24,530 --> 01:19:22,380
sure maybe that wasn't great but that's

2056
01:19:26,450 --> 01:19:24,540
what gave birth to us it's those

2057
01:19:28,310 --> 01:19:26,460
environmental conditions that made us

2058
01:19:30,229 --> 01:19:28,320
become the gray aliens we are what we

2059
01:19:33,950 --> 01:19:30,239
you perceive as the great aliens

2060
01:19:36,050 --> 01:19:33,960
and so to change that is to change

2061
01:19:38,630 --> 01:19:36,060
our existence and so we don't want that

2062
01:19:40,490 --> 01:19:38,640
to happen that fits with the narrative

2063
01:19:42,350 --> 01:19:40,500
that has nothing to do with what Michael

2064
01:19:44,330 --> 01:19:42,360
Masters is proposing here it just has to

2065
01:19:46,669 --> 01:19:44,340
do with the intelligence narrative that

2066
01:19:49,189 --> 01:19:46,679
was being presented last year in terms

2067
01:19:51,350 --> 01:19:49,199
of people like Ross saying that

2068
01:19:52,729 --> 01:19:51,360
people he's known for 20 years credible

2069
01:19:54,770 --> 01:19:52,739
sources in the intelligence community

2070
01:19:57,110 --> 01:19:54,780
that have never stood him wrong were

2071
01:20:00,350 --> 01:19:57,120
saying that these beings Were Us from

2072
01:20:02,209 --> 01:20:00,360
the future here around the eventuality

2073
01:20:03,709 --> 01:20:02,219
of this coming cataclysm and they had

2074
01:20:05,750 --> 01:20:03,719
two different perspectives on what

2075
01:20:06,890 --> 01:20:05,760
should happen and working towards those

2076
01:20:08,870 --> 01:20:06,900
ends

2077
01:20:11,990 --> 01:20:08,880
but all that said when you think about

2078
01:20:13,729 --> 01:20:12,000
how this particular hypothesis fits with

2079
01:20:16,669 --> 01:20:13,739
or doesn't fit with the other

2080
01:20:19,189 --> 01:20:16,679
possibilities how does it land for you

2081
01:20:22,550 --> 01:20:19,199
oh well it's as you were talking about

2082
01:20:25,370 --> 01:20:22,560
that uh in those competing factions I'm

2083
01:20:27,470 --> 01:20:25,380
reminded as well about the long

2084
01:20:29,870 --> 01:20:27,480
narratives that we've heard about the

2085
01:20:33,290 --> 01:20:29,880
Galactic Federation right so you could

2086
01:20:36,350 --> 01:20:33,300
easily see a situation where there are

2087
01:20:38,930 --> 01:20:36,360
quote-unquote human factions kind of

2088
01:20:42,530 --> 01:20:38,940
having a Time War basically and then you

2089
01:20:44,930 --> 01:20:42,540
have non-human you know entities that

2090
01:20:46,790 --> 01:20:44,940
already interact with each other across

2091
01:20:49,130 --> 01:20:46,800
the cosmos that are essentially

2092
01:20:51,110 --> 01:20:49,140
witnessing this and kind of

2093
01:20:52,850 --> 01:20:51,120
trying to pump the brakes on it or

2094
01:20:56,030 --> 01:20:52,860
trying to weigh the pros and cons of

2095
01:20:58,490 --> 01:20:56,040
each effort uh you know maybe jumping in

2096
01:21:03,350 --> 01:20:58,500
occasionally to you know tip the scale

2097
01:21:05,570 --> 01:21:03,360
one way or the other and that idea is I

2098
01:21:07,610 --> 01:21:05,580
think there's some Merit for that if you

2099
01:21:09,950 --> 01:21:07,620
look in in the expand the literature or

2100
01:21:13,070 --> 01:21:09,960
the experiencer accounts that there is

2101
01:21:16,209 --> 01:21:13,080
uh this no notion that there's some

2102
01:21:18,770 --> 01:21:16,219
other forces at play that aren't

2103
01:21:20,149 --> 01:21:18,780
anthropocentric you know in the ways

2104
01:21:23,450 --> 01:21:20,159
that we we've talked about with the

2105
01:21:27,590 --> 01:21:23,460
extra-term Pastoral model here uh that

2106
01:21:30,830 --> 01:21:27,600
have a stake in the human story but a

2107
01:21:34,189 --> 01:21:30,840
very different stake than than the these

2108
01:21:35,750 --> 01:21:34,199
two parties may have so it's uh it

2109
01:21:38,030 --> 01:21:35,760
honestly had never really occurred to me

2110
01:21:40,610 --> 01:21:38,040
to think of it in this way but now that

2111
01:21:42,709 --> 01:21:40,620
I have it's uh you know it's actually

2112
01:21:44,990 --> 01:21:42,719
quite compelling even that there might

2113
01:21:46,550 --> 01:21:45,000
be these other beings that are even

2114
01:21:48,770 --> 01:21:46,560
further along like they may have gone

2115
01:21:50,990 --> 01:21:48,780
through this whole time War situation in

2116
01:21:52,910 --> 01:21:51,000
their own history and have come out on

2117
01:21:55,490 --> 01:21:52,920
the other end of that and learned of the

2118
01:21:57,709 --> 01:21:55,500
Follies and you know the the mistakes

2119
01:21:59,390 --> 01:21:57,719
that were made in their own history and

2120
01:22:02,510 --> 01:21:59,400
are trying to kind of weigh in with some

2121
01:22:05,330 --> 01:22:02,520
wise counsel here to to help us navigate

2122
01:22:08,450 --> 01:22:05,340
this uh you know the the strange

2123
01:22:10,430 --> 01:22:08,460
technology that we have uncovered

2124
01:22:12,770 --> 01:22:10,440
um so I don't know for me it's actually

2125
01:22:14,689 --> 01:22:12,780
starting to fit kind of nicely with the

2126
01:22:18,350 --> 01:22:14,699
other models I don't know how well it

2127
01:22:21,649 --> 01:22:18,360
fits necessarily with something like the

2128
01:22:24,410 --> 01:22:21,659
crypto terrestrial model uh or the ultra

2129
01:22:26,270 --> 01:22:24,420
terrestrial model but I I do tend to

2130
01:22:29,209 --> 01:22:26,280
agree that a lot of things can be on the

2131
01:22:31,490 --> 01:22:29,219
table at once here because reality has

2132
01:22:33,169 --> 01:22:31,500
many many layers to it

2133
01:22:34,729 --> 01:22:33,179
indeed as you were talking about the

2134
01:22:37,130 --> 01:22:34,739
Galactic Federation there it occurred to

2135
01:22:39,770 --> 01:22:37,140
me that we often talk about what a

2136
01:22:42,169 --> 01:22:39,780
mature civilization looks like and that

2137
01:22:45,290 --> 01:22:42,179
perhaps there's this notion that there's

2138
01:22:48,410 --> 01:22:45,300
this sort of shielding around us

2139
01:22:50,510 --> 01:22:48,420
to sort of look at us like a a preschool

2140
01:22:52,310 --> 01:22:50,520
class that needs to learn some lessons

2141
01:22:54,229 --> 01:22:52,320
before we are exposed to some larger

2142
01:22:55,130 --> 01:22:54,239
realities involving a larger Galactic

2143
01:22:57,410 --> 01:22:55,140
community

2144
01:22:59,390 --> 01:22:57,420
you could actually argue that like you

2145
01:23:01,430 --> 01:22:59,400
say going through that phase of learning

2146
01:23:04,310 --> 01:23:01,440
about time and how to manipulate it and

2147
01:23:06,890 --> 01:23:04,320
the consequences of it is actually part

2148
01:23:09,050 --> 01:23:06,900
of that process that happens prior to

2149
01:23:10,970 --> 01:23:09,060
the introduction to the larger Galactic

2150
01:23:12,530 --> 01:23:10,980
Community or at least perhaps the larger

2151
01:23:14,870 --> 01:23:12,540
Galactic Community would try in its own

2152
01:23:18,229 --> 01:23:14,880
ways to do this in a kind of clandestine

2153
01:23:20,270 --> 01:23:18,239
way that doesn't overly impact a lot of

2154
01:23:21,950 --> 01:23:20,280
the prime directive from Star Trek while

2155
01:23:23,149 --> 01:23:21,960
a civilization figures out how it's

2156
01:23:24,890 --> 01:23:23,159
going to handle time and the

2157
01:23:26,689 --> 01:23:24,900
implications of that

2158
01:23:29,930 --> 01:23:26,699
all that's possible

2159
01:23:32,270 --> 01:23:29,940
but in terms of the specifics here one

2160
01:23:34,490 --> 01:23:32,280
thing to point out of course is that you

2161
01:23:37,370 --> 01:23:34,500
could have a future human

2162
01:23:40,010 --> 01:23:37,380
that then goes and populates the cosmos

2163
01:23:44,030 --> 01:23:40,020
or at least the the Milky Way

2164
01:23:45,950 --> 01:23:44,040
and does actually have perhaps even a

2165
01:23:48,410 --> 01:23:45,960
million years evolving as a different

2166
01:23:51,770 --> 01:23:48,420
kind of being on a different planet

2167
01:23:54,530 --> 01:23:51,780
and then we'll come back to earth

2168
01:23:56,630 --> 01:23:54,540
and have a connection to the Earth but

2169
01:23:59,209 --> 01:23:56,640
also really being an extraterrestrial

2170
01:24:02,090 --> 01:23:59,219
right they they it's almost a guarantee

2171
01:24:04,010 --> 01:24:02,100
that in the future we will if we're

2172
01:24:05,390 --> 01:24:04,020
still around and we're proposing here

2173
01:24:07,490 --> 01:24:05,400
that we are around the hence while

2174
01:24:09,290 --> 01:24:07,500
they're they're showing up then

2175
01:24:12,950 --> 01:24:09,300
certainly by then we will have developed

2176
01:24:14,630 --> 01:24:12,960
technology to travel the cosmos and

2177
01:24:16,729 --> 01:24:14,640
certainly we'll have populated other

2178
01:24:18,290 --> 01:24:16,739
planets by that point and so if those

2179
01:24:20,390 --> 01:24:18,300
beings are coming back then in the most

2180
01:24:23,330 --> 01:24:20,400
direct sense they're extraterrestrial as

2181
01:24:25,310 --> 01:24:23,340
much as their extra Tempest real so

2182
01:24:27,950 --> 01:24:25,320
there's that piece and that certainly

2183
01:24:30,110 --> 01:24:27,960
seems to be likely actually I think why

2184
01:24:31,310 --> 01:24:30,120
would we assume that well into the

2185
01:24:33,770 --> 01:24:31,320
future

2186
01:24:35,570 --> 01:24:33,780
300 000 years from now we will have

2187
01:24:37,729 --> 01:24:35,580
played with time travel but not also

2188
01:24:39,890 --> 01:24:37,739
space travel that seems unlikely it

2189
01:24:41,450 --> 01:24:39,900
seems likely we would do both so then

2190
01:24:43,729 --> 01:24:41,460
you start realizing that these common

2191
01:24:46,010 --> 01:24:43,739
Notions these common hypotheses begin to

2192
01:24:48,410 --> 01:24:46,020
collapse a little bit because there's

2193
01:24:50,030 --> 01:24:48,420
certain constants we assume when we set

2194
01:24:53,149 --> 01:24:50,040
up these hypotheses and some of them

2195
01:24:55,070 --> 01:24:53,159
become just irrelevant or transcended by

2196
01:24:57,189 --> 01:24:55,080
these new realities

2197
01:25:00,169 --> 01:24:57,199
even an ultra terrestrial that seemingly

2198
01:25:01,610 --> 01:25:00,179
is here and not here sometimes that

2199
01:25:03,350 --> 01:25:01,620
might be because of the time component

2200
01:25:05,390 --> 01:25:03,360
right so that that could explain that

2201
01:25:08,630 --> 01:25:05,400
and a crypto terrestrial of course is

2202
01:25:10,729 --> 01:25:08,640
just a being that is here in our usual

2203
01:25:11,930 --> 01:25:10,739
physical reality but is really good at

2204
01:25:13,610 --> 01:25:11,940
hiding

2205
01:25:15,110 --> 01:25:13,620
perhaps they even have evolutionary

2206
01:25:17,209 --> 01:25:15,120
traits that allow them to hide in

2207
01:25:20,689 --> 01:25:17,219
various ways so they could also exist

2208
01:25:22,910 --> 01:25:20,699
right alongside these beings that are

2209
01:25:24,050 --> 01:25:22,920
both Time Travelers and extraterrestrial

2210
01:25:26,229 --> 01:25:24,060
in that sense

2211
01:25:28,490 --> 01:25:26,239
and again because

2212
01:25:31,310 --> 01:25:28,500
undoubtedly the understanding of reality

2213
01:25:33,770 --> 01:25:31,320
will be so much more flushed out at that

2214
01:25:36,649 --> 01:25:33,780
point that what looks to us like an

2215
01:25:38,689 --> 01:25:36,659
interdimensional may also be what we

2216
01:25:40,790 --> 01:25:38,699
achieve once we understand the greater

2217
01:25:42,590 --> 01:25:40,800
nuances of reality and begin perhaps to

2218
01:25:44,630 --> 01:25:42,600
be able to navigate these extra

2219
01:25:46,850 --> 01:25:44,640
Dimensions that we're right now kind of

2220
01:25:48,590 --> 01:25:46,860
blind to and that when they take us

2221
01:25:50,209 --> 01:25:48,600
outside of the supposed space-time

2222
01:25:52,310 --> 01:25:50,219
construct as many experiencers talk

2223
01:25:53,870 --> 01:25:52,320
about that is already evidence that

2224
01:25:56,090 --> 01:25:53,880
they're doing that in that sense they

2225
01:25:58,370 --> 01:25:56,100
are kind of becoming interdimensional or

2226
01:26:02,090 --> 01:25:58,380
trans-dimensional so all of these things

2227
01:26:04,490 --> 01:26:02,100
are possibilities that grow out of this

2228
01:26:06,350 --> 01:26:04,500
direct sense of this being us in the

2229
01:26:07,910 --> 01:26:06,360
future exploring these greater aspects

2230
01:26:10,610 --> 01:26:07,920
of reality

2231
01:26:14,090 --> 01:26:10,620
um everything everywhere all at once it

2232
01:26:15,649 --> 01:26:14,100
is us it is us it's all us and that

2233
01:26:18,350 --> 01:26:15,659
actually brings us back to something

2234
01:26:20,450 --> 01:26:18,360
that we've talked about before that with

2235
01:26:23,629 --> 01:26:20,460
Consciousness being fundamental that we

2236
01:26:25,970 --> 01:26:23,639
are a part of the same substrate of

2237
01:26:28,370 --> 01:26:25,980
reality we are all individuated

2238
01:26:32,390 --> 01:26:28,380
expressions of that larger Consciousness

2239
01:26:35,450 --> 01:26:32,400
it is us uh it's it's us and it's

2240
01:26:37,669 --> 01:26:35,460
fractal right so it's it's us at every

2241
01:26:40,129 --> 01:26:37,679
layer but the way that it displays

2242
01:26:42,229 --> 01:26:40,139
itself at those different layers is

2243
01:26:44,209 --> 01:26:42,239
different the way it presents itself in

2244
01:26:46,430 --> 01:26:44,219
those different layers of reality is

2245
01:26:48,610 --> 01:26:46,440
different its appearance has changed

2246
01:26:50,930 --> 01:26:48,620
just like you said earlier as the craft

2247
01:26:53,570 --> 01:26:50,940
shifts and morphs in the sky it's

2248
01:26:56,030 --> 01:26:53,580
changing to us but in in a different

2249
01:26:59,270 --> 01:26:56,040
layer of reality it's not changing at

2250
01:27:02,570 --> 01:26:59,280
all it is what it is so I think these

2251
01:27:05,570 --> 01:27:02,580
models to use the term collapse is I

2252
01:27:07,310 --> 01:27:05,580
think really apt it's excellent it is a

2253
01:27:09,830 --> 01:27:07,320
collapsing all of the models collapse

2254
01:27:11,810 --> 01:27:09,840
down to a single model it's just that

2255
01:27:13,070 --> 01:27:11,820
looked at from different Vantage points

2256
01:27:16,070 --> 01:27:13,080
different perspectives different

2257
01:27:18,410 --> 01:27:16,080
experiences of space and time they they

2258
01:27:22,430 --> 01:27:18,420
take on different appearances but in the

2259
01:27:24,290 --> 01:27:22,440
end they are all us we are they

2260
01:27:25,610 --> 01:27:24,300
absolutely I'm glad you went through and

2261
01:27:29,390 --> 01:27:25,620
I think that's a great place to finish

2262
01:27:31,250 --> 01:27:29,400
here is that to me in a large way it's

2263
01:27:32,990 --> 01:27:31,260
it's inconsequential which of these ends

2264
01:27:34,729 --> 01:27:33,000
up being true because of what you just

2265
01:27:37,250 --> 01:27:34,739
said that ultimately we are all

2266
01:27:39,649 --> 01:27:37,260
connected we are all our extensions

2267
01:27:43,010 --> 01:27:39,659
fractual impressions of original source

2268
01:27:45,709 --> 01:27:43,020
so whether or not this great alien I'm

2269
01:27:48,410 --> 01:27:45,719
interacting with is actually a a

2270
01:27:51,290 --> 01:27:48,420
descendant of mine or

2271
01:27:54,229 --> 01:27:51,300
this is actually a being that grew up

2272
01:27:55,610 --> 01:27:54,239
and was an extension of a line from a

2273
01:27:59,030 --> 01:27:55,620
different planet that had nothing to do

2274
01:28:01,250 --> 01:27:59,040
with my line directly ultimately in the

2275
01:28:03,050 --> 01:28:01,260
greatest sense of the word we are all

2276
01:28:06,169 --> 01:28:03,060
fractal impressions of source and so

2277
01:28:07,850 --> 01:28:06,179
that original mind is implanted into

2278
01:28:09,709 --> 01:28:07,860
each of those so this would not involve

2279
01:28:12,110 --> 01:28:09,719
a cosmic seating program in a physical

2280
01:28:13,729 --> 01:28:12,120
way but it would be like again thinking

2281
01:28:17,510 --> 01:28:13,739
about Consciousness as being primary

2282
01:28:19,310 --> 01:28:17,520
that that original mind is is expressed

2283
01:28:21,290 --> 01:28:19,320
and seated if you will across these

2284
01:28:23,450 --> 01:28:21,300
different mindscapes which end up

2285
01:28:26,510 --> 01:28:23,460
appearing to US during a certain period

2286
01:28:28,310 --> 01:28:26,520
of our Evolution as the physical reality

2287
01:28:29,990 --> 01:28:28,320
and that's when we see things like space

2288
01:28:32,870 --> 01:28:30,000
and time but again those ultimately

2289
01:28:34,490 --> 01:28:32,880
being indicative of a deeper reality

2290
01:28:36,770 --> 01:28:34,500
that is ultimately based in

2291
01:28:38,629 --> 01:28:36,780
consciousness

2292
01:28:41,990 --> 01:28:38,639
well I don't know about you friend but

2293
01:28:44,629 --> 01:28:42,000
my mind has been blown uh to Smithereens

2294
01:28:47,390 --> 01:28:44,639
in this episode maybe more so than any

2295
01:28:49,850 --> 01:28:47,400
episode we've done so far because it is

2296
01:28:53,209 --> 01:28:49,860
as we said earlier it's a topic that's

2297
01:28:57,410 --> 01:28:53,219
not given I think enough attention it's

2298
01:28:59,030 --> 01:28:57,420
not discussed enough and explored and so

2299
01:29:01,129 --> 01:28:59,040
you know we've taken an hour and a half

2300
01:29:02,810 --> 01:29:01,139
here to try to explore some of the

2301
01:29:05,450 --> 01:29:02,820
Contours but really I would argue we

2302
01:29:08,390 --> 01:29:05,460
need a lot more exploration of this

2303
01:29:10,189 --> 01:29:08,400
notion and what it may mean for us and

2304
01:29:12,770 --> 01:29:10,199
I'm hoping maybe that this conversation

2305
01:29:15,530 --> 01:29:12,780
will serve as a catalyst for a wider

2306
01:29:17,810 --> 01:29:15,540
conversation in the community about this

2307
01:29:19,370 --> 01:29:17,820
particular hypothesis and and what it

2308
01:29:22,250 --> 01:29:19,380
may mean and I hope that folks that may

2309
01:29:23,450 --> 01:29:22,260
have dismissed it before outrighted and

2310
01:29:26,510 --> 01:29:23,460
said ah that does that doesn't really

2311
01:29:29,030 --> 01:29:26,520
make sense to me maybe we've explored

2312
01:29:30,590 --> 01:29:29,040
some things this evening that make it

2313
01:29:32,330 --> 01:29:30,600
more attractive more appealing and help

2314
01:29:34,610 --> 01:29:32,340
answer some of the questions that we

2315
01:29:37,250 --> 01:29:34,620
have around the phenomena

2316
01:29:39,410 --> 01:29:37,260
indeed and I would say I would quote

2317
01:29:41,450 --> 01:29:39,420
Jeff here and saying that I

2318
01:29:43,790 --> 01:29:41,460
would really encourage us and others to

2319
01:29:45,830 --> 01:29:43,800
refuse to land as they say

2320
01:29:47,629 --> 01:29:45,840
we have this innate desire to understand

2321
01:29:49,970 --> 01:29:47,639
things as human beings

2322
01:29:52,550 --> 01:29:49,980
but we should learn from history and if

2323
01:29:54,830 --> 01:29:52,560
there's one aspect of History I think is

2324
01:29:58,310 --> 01:29:54,840
so obvious when you look at it it's that

2325
01:30:01,129 --> 01:29:58,320
our current conventions are transcended

2326
01:30:03,350 --> 01:30:01,139
by deeper conventions that blow up or at

2327
01:30:05,870 --> 01:30:03,360
least greatly recontextualize previous

2328
01:30:08,030 --> 01:30:05,880
Notions this is how science advances

2329
01:30:09,649 --> 01:30:08,040
right I think we are undoubtedly

2330
01:30:11,930 --> 01:30:09,659
regardless of the ultimate nature of

2331
01:30:14,629 --> 01:30:11,940
this phenomenon we were at the precipice

2332
01:30:16,070 --> 01:30:14,639
of a scientific revolution because what

2333
01:30:17,689 --> 01:30:16,080
this is telling us about reality doesn't

2334
01:30:19,129 --> 01:30:17,699
fit with any of the current model it

2335
01:30:20,390 --> 01:30:19,139
can't you can't stuff it in like you're

2336
01:30:22,250 --> 01:30:20,400
trying to stuff a shirt inside a

2337
01:30:25,010 --> 01:30:22,260
suitcase that's already packed solid

2338
01:30:26,689 --> 01:30:25,020
this will change our understanding but

2339
01:30:28,790 --> 01:30:26,699
what I want to encourage people to do is

2340
01:30:31,129 --> 01:30:28,800
be comfortable with getting closer to

2341
01:30:33,169 --> 01:30:31,139
the truth without ever having a full

2342
01:30:35,510 --> 01:30:33,179
understanding of what that means because

2343
01:30:36,709 --> 01:30:35,520
that is a journey and as they say the

2344
01:30:38,930 --> 01:30:36,719
journey matters more than the

2345
01:30:40,669 --> 01:30:38,940
destination we are growing we are

2346
01:30:41,810 --> 01:30:40,679
learning we're seeing more but if

2347
01:30:44,330 --> 01:30:41,820
there's one thing we can learn from

2348
01:30:46,430 --> 01:30:44,340
history it's recognizing that the Folly

2349
01:30:48,770 --> 01:30:46,440
is to assume that we are close to having

2350
01:30:50,689 --> 01:30:48,780
the entire picture be okay that we are

2351
01:30:52,550 --> 01:30:50,699
not and be excited about there's always

2352
01:30:55,370 --> 01:30:52,560
more to come

2353
01:30:57,950 --> 01:30:55,380
and on that note May the quality of our

2354
01:30:59,930 --> 01:30:57,960
questions shaped by a desire for

2355
01:31:02,390 --> 01:30:59,940
understanding enhance our journey of

2356
01:31:04,310 --> 01:31:02,400
Discovery and may our Travelers broaden

2357
01:31:07,070 --> 01:31:04,320
the sphere of our Consciousness

2358
01:31:11,689 --> 01:31:07,080
reminding us that new discoveries beget

2359
01:31:13,729 --> 01:31:11,699
New Horizons as always Adventure awaits

2360
01:31:17,620 --> 01:31:13,739
we'll see you next time on liminal

2361
01:31:21,420 --> 01:31:19,750
[Music]

2362
01:31:27,730 --> 01:31:21,430
[Laughter]